Samson about to lose his happy home!

Also I've recently considered a 'shock collar' for him as a last resort but I just can't be cruel. I would rather get rid of him than use a shock collar.

Hiya LG!

Sounds like he really is a handful and you getting hurt means he's too powerful.

I can really recommend Top Dog Security http://www.topdogsecurity.co.uk/ as it's where I took my Akita. They're in Waltham Abbey, so a bit of a trek for you, but they'd more than likely keep samson for at least 3 weeks (probably longer if he's really troublesome)

These guys do allsorts of specialty training - bomb,drug, sniffer, guarding etc etc.

I had a live demo of a German Shepherd doing the 'trained to bite' an attacker's arm and was very impressed. As soon as they stopped the excercise the doggy went back to being friendly and placid - as soon as a command word was spoken, she went into 'work mode' !

The facility is large, the Police and working dogs are kept in a separate area away from the 'pets' area and there were a good 2 or 3 handlers when I was there (drop off and pickup) and what I think were teenagers from the local area assisting with the more mundane walking and behaviour repetitive training. The section where the Police and Working dogs were is quite 'frightening' as they all are behind their caged pens and growl and bark as you walk past - showing the training is working!! not all of them though, guess the sniffer dogs are more placid - but you can definitley tell these dogs have more of a working streak in them!

Give these guys a call - who knows, they may be able to calm samson down, I'm sure they've had experience with strong/difficult dogs. If not, maybe they might take Samson on? or at least know of someone who 'wants' an aggressive type dog..

Good luck !

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

Also I've recently considered a 'shock collar' for him as a last resort but I just can't be cruel. I would rather get rid of him than use a shock collar.

Shock collars aren't cruel LG - I think I typed up in the other post where I met that old guy with his Muzzled AND shock collared German Shepherd! to quote the old guy "last week I let him off on my land and before I knew it he'd had the back legs off a deer - so I can't risk anything liek that happening in public and I only use it if he's being feisty"

It did work, becuase as my doggy started lunging at him he responded and the owner pressed the button and his dog just immediatley subdued and layed down - no yelping or whining.

I don't know if Samson is as viscous as what this dog was but the shock collar isn't cruel.

See if you can do some more research in between wrestling bouts with your dog!

Cheers! DtM West London & Slough UK!

Thanks Dennis. I'll check out that link.
So about shock collars. Is it a powerful shock? I always envision the electric chair and the thing setting my dogs head on fire! During Samsons training the trainer used a washing up bottle of water and would shoot it in his face when he would show aggression but he wasnt bothered. It's very difficult to get his attention when he's being aggressive. I hate to send him packing and if there's anyway at all I can keep him I'll give it a try but I don't want to hurt him. 

There is an alternative to the shock collar system, it's the spray collar, which sprays cold water on the dogs neck http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/prod5.asp?prod_id=1985&id=115&grpid=1985&msg=&offset=#prod_anchor .

There is an alternative to the shock collar system, it's the spray collar, which sprays cold water on the dogs neck http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/prod5.asp?prod_id=1985&id=115&grpid=1985&msg=&offset=#prod_anchor .

oo my friend used that to stop his dog barking. Worked a treat!

Shock collars aren't cruel

I think that's a matter of opinion. I personally would call them cruel...

I had a friend test one out on himself just too see...he couldn't even talk after it went off and he was able to immediately remove it from his throat. Yes, dumb to try it out but...now he knows how his dog felt and didn't use it again.


Anyway, Pebs...
Have you ever watched the dog whisperer?
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

Also, I think there's a similar show over there but I can't remember what it's called...something like It's me or the dog. Anyway, the point is are you able too look into contacting a behaviorist? I know you've probably pretty much done what you can but there's gotta be something. How about muzzling him when you go out? How often does he get walked? Or is able to run...that helps with pent up aggression and such...kinda like when you let kids run crazy they are tired at the end of the night.

Hope everything works out well for you and samson
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/tips/issues_understand_aggression.php

There is an alternative to the shock collar system, it's the spray collar, which sprays cold water on the dogs neck http://www.nutrecare.co.uk/prod5.asp?prod_id=1985&id=115&grpid=1985&msg=&offset=#prod_anchor .

Are you kidding me with this? I don't mean to be a negative Nellie but if a full force spray of cold water to the face won't even phase him then i doubt water to the neck would. If it were cheaper maybe i would try but for £125! That's half the price I paid for the dog! Yikes!!

Hi Penguin
Yeah heard of the Dog Whisperer. I also heard really negative things about his methods. I've watched his programme several times just sitting there shaking my head. No way would some of his methods work with my hound from hell! 

oh i'm so sorry that samson has not improved even though you have put in so much work. we're still struggling with our montie and his aggressiveness towards other dogs. but...we've had him at kennels and he is completely normal around other dogs when we're not there. i think it's about protecting the owner...so if you're not there he may be different.

i've read up on the spray collars and read one dog that would bark the number of times to empty the collar purposely....very smart dog. we've used a spray bottle that was water mixed with vinegar....it did work for some situations.

it's so difficult to have a dog with "issues". like you i've never had a problem with a dog before...but everything i read...watch...says it's about the owner. it's so frustrating....but if you can find someplace that he can use his personality to benefit him rather than it being something that needs to change...than it will probably be better for all of you.

good luck...we we're talking about you and the prospect of similar personal dog training after montie was a complete idiot with every dog this weekend.

hiya Penguin,

I see your point - however in this particular instance I was aiming it towards LG and her rather uncontrollable/viscous dog. The dog has to learn, and by using a shock collar in this instance - it 'could' do well and isn't being cruel.

However, continual use and/or use just for the sake of it or using on a smaller dog etc I'd totally agree with you and that would be cruel.

I was always under the impression you could also vary the intensity of the shock collar ?  I've never needed one so haven't looked into them.

As for your friend using one, well that is a bit stupid of him! I'd have thought as dogs have a layer of fur around them, maybe the 'intensity' of the shock isn't as harsh as it would be on bare skin?

Good luck LG !

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

I'm so sorry LadyG, that things haven't gotten any better for Samson :-(. I know its got to be so heartbreaking for you, to rehome him.

I know you are at the end of your rope, but have you asked your vet about a specialist? In the US we have veterinary behaviorists, I don't know what the equivalent might be in the UK...but in my introductory behavior course we learned about dealing with dog-aggression (it sounds like that is his problem, when he sees other dogs?) by using desensitization and counter-conditioning techniques.

I always have to throw in my two cents about this: Although I'm pretty sure you know my opinions on this, I have to say that Cesar Millan's "techniques" (and I use the term loosely) are appalling and dangerous and have been criticized by both the humane society and the American Veterinary Society for Animal Behavior.

It's me or the dog is a much better model to go after!

I really hope things work out for you and Samson, LadyG. Its obvious how much you care about him, and I'm sure if you need to you will find him a great home.

Ahhh Pebbs....  I'm so sorry.  That really, really sucks.  A good dog match can be the most amazing thing but a bad match can be the most life disrupting thing going. 

I'd go with the breeder - she should take him back regardless if she's worth her salt (I would think it's in your contract with her).  Let her find a suitable place for him.  Presumably, she's set up with kennels etc.. for GSDs, and she has the pipeline for homing GSDs, even the difficult ones.   

Do not take him to a shelter, please. 

Big Hugs Pebbles!  PM me if you want..

Well I spoke to Sam's trainer last night and she agreed he is powerful and boisterous and said as a last resort (instead of re-homing) I can take him to the kennels where we train and leave him there for a few weeks and she will train him for me. She said he'll go for one week and during that week I can come out for two hours on one day and work with them. Then after that week he'll come home for a week to work and she'll come to the house. Then he'll go back for another week's training. She said he'll be working with people that are used to handling dogs like him and the job will get done. Training me to work with him will be done in the last week of training.
Since we don't want to get rid of the hound from hell and will do anything to try to keep him I guess we're going to give this a shot. She's only charging me £50 a week plus the kennel cost! What a bargain! I trust this trainer. She really cares about the breed (she has 7 of her own!) and really believes Samson is trainable.
She said if things don't work out after 'boot camp' then she would also suggest the Army or Police force for him but not a shelter. Of course I already decided against a shelter straight away.
So anyway Samson's off to Leicester for boot camp!

Sounds great! I hope it goes well!