HEEEELLPP!!! (Child Custody)

So....

I had a talk in late November telling my son's father that I was planning on moving to the UK. We actually had a pleasant conversation and it ended with him saying he'd think about it. 

So, last Wednesday I asked if we could touch base again, he said ok. I met him at his house and was there no longer than 1.5 mins. He said immediately, "for obvious reasons, my answer is no". 

Now, this come from the man. Has taken me to court 2 times for visitation that he doesn't even show up for. He has 2 1/2 days a week and goes 3 weeks at a time without calling or seeing him, is always late with child support, and when he does pick up my son on a school night never does his homework. Needless to say I am EXTREMELY PISSED.

So, now we have to go to court. Which I don't mind because I have lots of things to support my case, I just don't want to spend the money. I have spoken to a lawyer who says I should try talking to him once last time. I know it's useless, he's very vendictive. Even though he's married with his 3 child on the way, the thought of me being married and happy drives him nuts.

If anyone has any happy stories or advice to life my spirits. I would be much appreciated. I spoke  to a lawyer (who I won't be using) today who quoted me $40,000 I almost died! I just want to move to England and start my new life.

HELP!
Alzbabybird...Danielle  :\\\'(

Have a look round and see if you can find some sort of mediation.  Someone who will help you both lay all your cards on the table in a non-confrontational way.  He probably has reasonable fears and objections, just as you have sound reasons for wanting to do this.  I think you both need to hear them, and long term it'd probably be better to talk it out, rather than go to court.  But I'd definately try to do this with a objective third party.  Good Luck, Danielle. 

I agree--sitting down with a neutral third party is the best idea. Also, is he currently paying child support? Is he up to date? I found when I mentioned to my ex and his current wife the idea of no longer needing to pay child support they were much more in favor of the idea--I presented it in a way that said the money they had been spending on child support could be used to pay for tickets for my daughter to come back more often to visit.
I am not sure if that is an option for you (but when you look at the cost of a lawyer the idea of giving up at least part of support might be a financial benefit to you).

Good Luck...I know it is hard to have someone have some control over your life...but do remember he is the child's father..and might really honestly have some genuine concerns---I know I would if the shoe was on the other foot...am just thankful that my ex agreed.

Helena

Who has residential custody?
If your child is living with you and the father is paying child support and your divorce papers do not set a limit on where you can move, TAKE HIM WITH YOU.

I have just gone through six years of hell, $10,000 for court/lawyer fees, what-will-end-up-being $50,000 to my ex ... for someone to casually turn to me and ask "Why didn't you just take him with you?"

LisaE - I wish it were that easy.  Whoever asked you that has obviously not been through this sort of situation in recent years.

My sons don't even know their fathers.  Their fathers' names are NOT on their birth certificates.  Which was the only thing that made my situation easy.  I *should* have needed their permission to get the boys' passports - but because mine was the only name on the birth certificate, they let it slide.  I mean, really, if there's no father named, how can they prove that I even *know* who the father(s) is/are?! 

Then when I had to apply for their visas, I had to repeat the situation again - no father's name on either birth certficiate - I'd been able to secure their passports without anyone else's signature.  The boys were there and were more than happy to attest to the fact that they'd never even met their fathers if need be (they were 8 and 14 at the time, so I guess their word would have mattered for something...).

Danielle - does your child already have a passport of his own?  Because that's going to be your first hurdle.  As of July 2001, both parents have to sign the application for a minor's passport.  And then the Consulate is going to want proof of the father's permission before you can secure a visa for him.  No matter what the divorce decree says about residential custody and limitations on where you live.  You're not talking about moving from Florida to NY - which would be enough of a difference since each state has their own child custody/child support laws.  You're moving the child to a completely different country.

I hate to see when this happens - when parents are so caught up in their own pettiness they forget that the welfare of their children is at stake.  And in this case this father is NOT going to seem a hero to his kid if his actions result in the child's mother being miserable.  Kids are smart - they eventually figure things out...   

Helena's suggestion of "bartering" the child support issue is a good one, depending on your situation.  However, just because you're moving to another country and getting married does NOT mean that he has no responsibility to pay child support - and you need to remember that.

Contact the Legal Aid in your area and see if they can help.  Otherwise, maybe the Court system for your county has a family mediation service - they're very "popular" nowadays.

I wish you the best of luck - and keep us posted.  You know you can PM me anytime. 

What a crappy situation... Best wishes to you and your family. 

You gals are so awesome! Here is the agreement that I presented to him:

1) we both keep joint custody
2) no child support
3) visitations-every summer and every other Christmas.

I think that's fair, he'll have him on all of his off time.

HG-

I thought the child support would get him too, but no such luck. And you'd think with a kid (not mine) another kid on the way and an unemployed wife that he run at the chance to save money, but he gets more satisfaction out of me being miserable.

LisaE-

Nelson (father) and I were never married and yes I am the primary parent. But because we have joint custody, if I leave it will be "kidnapping".

peedal- hello!!! Yes, Elijah has a passport and his father did sign for it. And I have contacted Legal Aid, but I make too much money.

Another thing I'm planning on doing is seeing if I can get Robert Shapiro (the OJ case), to write him some sort of threatening letter. He's one of the cofounders of the company I work for.

I'm going to talk to Nelson again today, wish me luck. Any suggestions on other visitation options? I'm feeling very stessed and very disheartened by the whole. If he says no and the judge says no, Al and I can't get married. I'm not leaving my son here. 

THanks for all of the info.

-alz

At least you have the passport.

I like the Shapiro idea!   

How did you end up with a joint custody agreement if there was no marriage?  I'm just curious.  Did your child support ever go through Department of Revenue?

I'd still check with the Clerk's office at the Courthouse and see if there's a family mediation department.  That might help - and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than using attorneys.

You know we're behind you on this - anything we can think of that will help, I'm sure we'll toss it out there!  And seriously good vibes are heading your way!   

Best of luck to you Danielle. I've been there, and was not successful, which I will attribute to having a crap lawyer. He made no effort to prove that it was in their best interests, and that is what the judge's final remarks were, prove that it's in their best interests. I didn't lose custody then, just a judgement that I couldn't take them with me (which I think speaks volumes for what the judge thought of their father), but I gave it up in the end to prevent splitting up the new family where there were also children involved. If it gets to court, you will need to do that! If you do some searches on International custody cases, you will find lots of information about what sort of things to concentrate on for proving this. Feel free to post/vent if you ever need to, we're here for moral support.

You can't kidnap your own child.

Trust me, I know all your arguments. I had them too. The situation is too fresh for me to properly answer without rackling a few feathers. All I can say is if there is any question at all, bring your son with you. It isn't kidnapping. You might be threatened with it, but it won't hold up in court.

I can't say anything more right now.  :\\\'(

Danielle I wish I had advice to offer, but one thing I do know is that these ladies have been there.  I wish you the best luck in the world in all of this!

Hugs to everyone that's had to go through the pain of the court system.  It truly sucks.

$40,000 IS a lot.  The guy you went to is obviously way high priced.  BUT to play devil's advocate, children matters tend to run  very long with numerous Court hearings, letters going back and forth, professionals being called in, hence, a high bill.  Given you're in the LA area....it all adds up to a REALLY high legal bill. 

I think what you're offering to the father is super fair, however, to throw in a few other things for good measure: -

1.  Offer to pay for your son's airfare for visitation.  IF this matter were to go to Court, the father could very convincingly argue that he's not the one moving to another country and therefore he shouldn't have to pay the price for visitation.  I know this for a fact because when my ex and I divorced, he chose to live in a different state so the Judge told him he had to pay travel costs for visitation.  When I moved to the UK and let my daughters go live with their dad, I knew that I would lose if I tried to ask for half of travel costs, so I agreed to pay 100% travel.  Typically, the parent who moves is the one who pays for travel for visitation. 

2.  Offer weekly telephone contact and again offer to initiate telephone calls at your expense.  There are good calling plans in the UK and you can get international rates for super cheap (we use Onetel and pay about .03p a minute for calls to the US).  Your son is young so conversations will probably not last long anyway.  But again, it shows to a Court that you're willing to allow regular contact to take place.

3.  Don't be afraid to act pro se, i.e., without a lawyer.  It might be beneficial to see if you can find a lawyer you can retain simply to give you advice on how to handle forms or advise on the law, but then do the leg work yourself.  It's not as difficult as it might seem and you'll save yourself tons in the end. 

4.  Don't be afraid to file a motion NOW to get permission from the state to move.  Chances are pretty good that if the father doesn't have any money, and he's got an unemployed partner and another baby on the way, he's not going to be able to afford a lengthy Court battle himself. 

5.  Leah brings up a good point about proving your case.  It's not a bad idea to have perhaps a copy of Al's mortgage statement or lease to prove that he is in accommodation which is suitable for your son, proof that he's working and earning a decent living and can support you while you find work, have copies of job ads here in the UK for the type of work you will be looking for so that you can show what types of salary you will most likely be earning, outline the benefits which you will be able to receive (Al should be able to apply for these initially even if you can't) such as Child Benefit, Child Tax Credit (which you can get if you're working) and Working Tax Credit (again, if you're working).  All of those could prove why you don't necessarily require child support.  Get information on the schools and child care in the area to show that your son will be getting a good education and be well taken care of while you work. 

These are all things a Court will look at.  If you can cover as many bases as you can NOW so if it does go to Court, you have a lot going for you and it will show that you've thought of these things, you've worked things out and you're not being flippant in your decision. 

Peedal, LisaE and Leah have also given you great advice as they've all (and I) have been there and hey, Peedal and I are legal secretaries (both in the US and here) so we tend to know, at least generally, how Courts think.  Best of luck, sweetie!  I hope it works out!

 

I've got information comin' outta my ears! Between you gals and my in house attorney at work, I am heavily armed.

I guess the thing that frustrates me so much is....well loads of things in this situation frustrate me, but #1 is definitely, just the odacity of Nelson. I figured out that he has about 12 days a month with Elijah and he has already missed 9 and the month is not over. And he's the one that took me to court TWICE to get the visitations. 
It's all doing my head in. But thanks to you guys and Al, my mind is at ease...for now.

We talked again last night and the answer was still no again. I even told him he should talk to a lawyer because they're going to give him the same advice I was given. He said the only way he'll sign is if the lawyer tells him to other wise (depending on his odds), he's going to "fight me" on it. He also had the nerve to ask me my lawyer's name. Since I lied and told him I was already being represented, I told him I needed to talk to her before I gave him that information.    <---me being cheeky...

My frustration also comes from, I feel like the judge is going to like my agreement, so why spend all of this money when we can just sign it for free. GGEEEZZZ, he's such a pain.

As far as your suggestions. I think it's only fair that if he's not paying for child care and child support, he should pay for half of the ticket. He'll be saving $500 a month.

Phone calls I can do, I am affraid to represent myself  ,  I'm going to meet with this lawyer monday to file ASAP, and unfortunately Al is homeless at the moment.  Not literally, but he lives in the flat above the his shop. He's going to try to get a mortage for a house at the end of year. Which is why I have to wait until next summer to move there. Plus we want to get married on our anniversary. (3/13)

I pretty much have all of this information and knowledge. I just don't know what he's going to try to pull, he's a sneaky little sh*t! He loves to lie. Last time we went to court he stated on his deposition that I stopped letting him see his son when he got engaged, which is a total lie. I actually like his wife, she a sweet lady. I don't know what possed her to marry him.

The moral of the story is everything just seems too perfect. I have loads of things to prove my case, he's still not showing up his visitations, and I feel the judge will agree with me. BUT what if he doesn't like I said, Al definitely can't live here and I would feel like an unfit mother to leave my child with such a neglectful father. I have so much to lose here.

Just a little stressed and emotional drained.    :\\\'( 

Wish I had more to say ...but *HUGS*!
You hang in there!

As far as your suggestions. I think it's only fair that if he's not paying for child care and child support, he should pay for half of the ticket. He'll be saving $500 a month.

Definitely talk this over with an attorney because I think you'll find a Court won't agree.  Be very careful arguing this point.  If the father refuses to pay half the travel (and undoubtedly he will) then don't give up your child support.  Make him pay it, which in turn will help you pay for plane fare.  It's called dirty pool.