The most annoying expressions...

No, it's not. As this thread has shown, there are plenty of people in the north who pronounce the letter H correctly. And there are also plenty of people in the south who say 'haitch.' It's not regional. It's just incorrect.

Sorry. I'm feeling grumpy today.

People with high-level professional positions and university degrees here in Yorkshire say "haitch".  I doubt if they are all unfamililar with correct English usage.

I wouldn't know about southern usage. I also wouldn't know about other areas of the north.

Regarding Yorkshire I think you should be able to accept the opinions of myself and Mrs. Robinson.

People with high-level professional positions and university degrees here in Yorkshire say "haitch".  I doubt if they are all unfamililar with correct English usage.

I think we all know that just because someone has a university degree, it doesn't necessarily mean they speak correctly. George Bush went to Yale and still says 'nu-cu-lar."

I wouldn't know about southern usage. I also wouldn't know about other areas of the north.

Then why would you state so confidently that it's purely a northern thing?

Regarding Yorkshire I think you should be able to accept the opinions of myself and Mrs. Robinson.

No, I'm not able to accept your opinions. I have family in Yorkshire (born and raised) and they would never never say 'haitch.'

To clarify my opinion, I'd say it is pronounced 'haitch' by a lot of folks in the north, but there are also folks up here who don't say it that way (hence why I added the point about the commentary from my neighbor who is a native Yorkshire-woman).  I don't know what people down south do or don't do.

In any case, it's hardly worth arguing over either way.  *shrugs*

In any case, it's hardly worth arguing over either way.  *shrugs*

Maybe not, but it does bother me when someone says that THIS IS THE WAY IT IS HERE (or there or wherever), when clearly there are huge exceptions.

And pronouncing things incorrectly is still incorrect, no matter where you live.

I hesitate to join the fray here, lol... but I guess just for the sake of interest and tidbits of information if anyone is curious about one segment of one random British person's experience of this "haitch" business.

This is what I've noticed with "haitch" in the place where I grew up, for what it's worth. 

In the 1960's I grew up in Chingford E4, which is postally the "East End " of London (hence the E in their postal code) but only just -- it is an area of geographically the north-east corner of London that borders Essex county. It's a spot that has for centuries been home to an odd mixture of both rather middle class, well-off and educated people, and also influxes of true "East End" folks coming in from more inner London east end such as Spitalfields, Bethnal Green, etc. especially following WWII when many East Enders were bombed out of their homes.

So the speech patterns in my part of London were quite varied. There were very genteel upper middle class people who lived on my street speaking received pronunciation that sounded exactly like the Queen, and there were families that spoke what most people would classify as Cockney, " cor blimey, luv a duck" -- the whole shebang. My schools, also, had this mixture of speech and class. And when anyone had an occasion to pronounce the letter "H" by itself, as a letter, one person would say "aitch" while the next person said "haitch."

In my own case, it's a bit complicated because I was born in the heart of the east end of London, but grew up in slightly more "posh" OUTER east London, but my mother had a Scottish accent and my father had a Liverpool accent. I have a general, non-specific London accent as I guess I learned to speak from the immediate population around me. I have always said "aitch." But my best friend and her family, who were more of the "Cockney" type of folks, said "Haitch" when speaking the letter H.

I remember being confused by this as a child! Was I saying it wrong? Were they? As a child I was even told by someone (a teacher? I don't know) that "lower classes and uneducated people say "Haitch" but the correct way is "aitch" "

I even heard that the "haitch" comes from cockney speakers believing that one should pronounce the "h" sound when saying the letter, because that's what they are told about not leaving the "h" sound off the front of words that begin with H, which they do frequently (it's called 'dropping the h' for example, 'ouse instead of house, etc). One might wonder if this is in fact why some people mistakenly say "Haitch" because they fear that to say "aitch" is to commit the sin of "dropping the H." So perhaps it has all become muddled as to the correct way to say it.

All I know is, for me, this was east London bordering Essex, and both were heard in native speakers, but there seemed to be a feeling that "aitch" is correct no matter where you come from, and "haitch" was some kind of mistake people made no matter where they came from.

Eek sorry this is so long but I just wondered if I could add my own bit of geographical life-experience to the conundrum.

Very interesting Midnight! I think my (educated) friend from Telford/Yorkshire says "haitch" (never heard it before I met her) but now I am going to ask my other Brit friends what they do. This has made me very curious!

Very interesting Midnight! I think my (educated) friend from Telford/Yorkshire says "haitch" (never heard it before I met her) but now I am going to ask my other Brit friends what they do. This has made me very curious!

I get the feeling that these days it is both "educated" and "uneducated" who say "haitch" and seemingly in all parts of the UK, too -- meaning we will probably never get to the bottom of who really says this, where, and since when, lol!! 

Hope that post wasn't too boring, I just thought I'd fill in my own history with this issue from the part of the country I know about.

Another Yorkshire person chiming in...I hear "haitch" all the time, at least in my little corner of the universe.  I also know quite a few people who don't say haitch, but I hear it enough that I'm used to it now.

What's that thing they say about being "divided by a common language" lol!

There's another saying:  "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"  

There's another saying:  "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"  

Yep, getting away from the "aitch" thing for a minute, I'm with you, I'm all for that one, lol!
Unless you are only vacationing in a place, I feel that to live long term there are many benefits to changing your vocab if you want life there to settle in for you.

For the long duration I lived as a Brit in the US, I was more than happy to adopt "parking lot" instead of carpark, trunk instead of boot, "yOHh-gurt," "toMAYto" etc, simply because life, conversations, and shopping became farcical if I kept insisting on using my native British pronunciations and terms.

While there is a lot to be said for hanging onto your own speech, terms, words, pronunciations and spellings even while living longterm or for life in another culture, I personally found it just got in my way every day of my life, and I Americanized everything for my own benefit.

Now that I'm back I'm trying hard to adopt UK words and terms again. But this is just me, I just found life and daily interractions went more smoothly "when in Rome".

I get the feeling that these days it is both "educated" and "uneducated" who say "haitch" and seemingly in all parts of the UK, too -- meaning we will probably never get to the bottom of who really says this, where, and since when, lol!! 

Hope that post wasn't too boring, I just thought I'd fill in my own history with this issue from the part of the country I know about.

I just included the educated part since some people have pointed out that it may be a matter of education level that influences pronunciation.

After I posted, I IM'd my friend in Nottingham. He says he generally says "haitch" but sometimes says "aitch". He said it depends on context and whether he can be bothered to say it properly. I asked what does he consider "properly" really expecting him to say "aitch". But he said for him, "haitch" is what he considers "properly".

If I were in school, studying linguistics, I think I could do an interesting report on this: What affects the pronunciation of the letter "h"? Of course, this stuff (even the little stuff) just fascinates me! I once did a paper on the evolution of the usage of written accents in French when I was taking linguistics in uni. [insert nerd pushing up glasses smiley here! ] Even my linguistics prof said it was an "obscure" topic.

Midnight blue I found your long post very interesting as well!  Just to add my 2p my husband who is from Manchester says "haitch".  He comes from a family that I would say was upwardly mobile working class.  He has a university degree for what it's worth. 

Do you know what else I find interesting while we are on the subject of accents and pronunciation....I actually hear some similarities in the Liverpool accent to Philadelphia area accent!  I also am pretty sure that there was a lot of trade via ships from Liverpool-Philadelphia up until the somewhat recent decline in the shipyards.  I suspect there was also many immigrants from Liverpool who settled in Philadelphia in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

I just included the educated part since some people have pointed out that it may be a matter of education level that influences pronunciation.

After I posted, I IM'd my friend in Nottingham. He says he generally says "haitch" but sometimes says "aitch". He said it depends on context and whether he can be bothered to say it properly. I asked what does he consider "properly" really expecting him to say "aitch". But he said for him, "haitch" is what he considers "properly".

If I were in school, studying linguistics, I think I could do an interesting report on this: What affects the pronunciation of the letter "h"? Of course, this stuff (even the little stuff) just fascinates me! I once did a paper on the evolution of the usage of written accents in French when I was taking linguistics in uni. [insert nerd pushing up glasses smiley here! ] Even my linguistics prof said it was an "obscure" topic.

Hah hah, you are not a nerd -- I too find this stuff completely fascinating! Language usage is great stuff to ponder!

Yes, I don't think the "educated" part really comes into the "aitch" conundrum at this point in time; that was just some grownup in the 1960's, probably a bit of a snob, telling me that this was so -- I don't claim that that person knew any better about this matter than the rest of us.  

I am still under the impression that "aitch" is correct...but who knows by now. Of course one of the things about speech and language is that it is fluid and is constantly being shaped and altered by usage in real terms, so that the "rules" even begin to change completely over years, decades, centuries...Perhaps now, both forms would be considered correct by some authority on the English language, who knows. I'm going to go Google this one!

I just included the educated part since some people have pointed out that it may be a matter of education level that influences pronunciation.

After I posted, I IM'd my friend in Nottingham. He says he generally says "haitch" but sometimes says "aitch". He said it depends on context and whether he can be bothered to say it properly. I asked what does he consider "properly" really expecting him to say "aitch". But he said for him, "haitch" is what he considers "properly".

If I were in school, studying linguistics, I think I could do an interesting report on this: What affects the pronunciation of the letter "h"? Of course, this stuff (even the little stuff) just fascinates me! I once did a paper on the evolution of the usage of written accents in French when I was taking linguistics in uni. [insert nerd pushing up glasses smiley here! ] Even my linguistics prof said it was an "obscure" topic.

There's also an interesting linguistic concept known as "hypercorrection".  It's seen among (and don't take this as a snobby statement, please) the lower classes, particularly among a segment of the lower classes that aspires to upward mobility.  It's where a grammatical usage (or pronunciation) is taken up because they perceive it as more "upper class" or correct, but is in fact incorrect.  As in the usage put to such good effect by Monty Python "an hoop".  Linguistic studies are fun!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection

There's also an interesting linguistic concept known as "hypercorrection".  It's seen among (and don't take this as a snobby statement, please) the lower classes, particularly among a segment of the lower classes that aspires to upward mobility.  It's where a grammatical usage (or pronunciation) is taken up because they perceive it as more "upper class" or correct, but is in fact incorrect.

What I like to call 'Between You and I' Syndrome!