Another question about getting my passport stamped

I don't see why a visitor couldn't take a one off dance class or even a group of classes. As a visitor to a country, I've taken yoga classes. There are hotels in London that offer yoga or fitness classes for a fee, are you saying that it is illegal for a visitor to attend one of those?

I agree with pkmac; we have loads of people from out of the country come to our swing dance classes when they are visiting the UK. 

The immigration system recognizes that ballerinas etc are a bit special.  They (i.e., T5 creative) are the **ONLY** category in the new PBS who can come in and work without a permit.  If it's for 90 days or less.

So what all this means is that you're now sorted.  Right?

Sounds like it, thanks for the help.    Thank Goodness, I hate waking up at three a.m. trying to figure out how to sort things out properly. 

But, darn it.  I was just starting to enjoy my rogue ballerina status.   

One more question, and I appreciate your patience.  This new rule that ballet dancers can work for 90 days or less without a permit, I am imagining this applies only to performing for pay- and not teaching.  It's pretty much a moot point anyway, as I couldn't teach ballet in this country anyway what with not being RAD trained.  Also, does this apply to other fields in the arts as well- for example musical theatre performers or other types of dancers?  I looked it up on google, but all that technical jargon makes little to no sense to me.  Thanks in advance.

No, teaching is T2, ballerinas are T5. 

geeta/pmac:  I didn't make the rule.  Where were you guys when the consultations were happening?  It's a bit late now to jump in.

No, teaching is T2, ballerinas are T5. 

geeta/pmac:  I didn't make the rule.  Where were you guys when the consultations were happening?  It's a bit late now to jump in.

Have there been any cases of people being removed or not been able to get their visas because they've taken a dance class?  I'm curious to hear what Vicky's take on it is.

No, teaching is T2, ballerinas are T5. 

Sorry, to be a pain- but is it only ballet performance allowed by this T5 creative business?  What about Musical Theatre or Jazz?  From what I read, it seemed to be for artists and athletes.  Like I said, not great with legal jargon- so perhaps I'm misreading.

T5 Creative includes all types of performers and artists.  You can't switch out of visitor into the PBS tho'.

I am sure you can do what you want as long as there is no "paper trail" - you possibly shouldn't..but hey..if your stuck around waiting for a visa and your Bord out of your skull...I can't see the harm in joining any clubs..as long as there is no "paper trail" to trace you back to it..how are they going to know??  Obviously doing courses at a college is different than going to the local village hall for dance classes for example...there will obviously be a link to the college.

Turning up at a event and anonymously paying a fee to dance or go to a gym is far removed than going to "college" which is where I think the confussion starts.

Garry is a rules man...and some of us stick religiously to them and some of us are "do what ya gotta do so you don't go insane" people...

Just be careful and make sure that whatever you do won't bite you in the ass later on.

This change became active in September 2007, and advisories about it were posted on this board in advance of the deadline; in June or July IIRC.

I didn't make the rule.  Where were you guys when the consultations were happening?  It's a bit late now to jump in.

I only discovered this board a couple of months ago, so couldn't have taken part, sorry! It just seems odd that leisure classes are classified in the same way as courses that lead to some kind of award, especially since these sorts of classes tend to be pay as you go and quite casual. I don't think I'll ever understand immigration! 

I only discovered this board a couple of months ago, so couldn't have taken part, sorry! It just seems odd that leisure classes are classified in the same way as courses that lead to some kind of award, especially since these sorts of classes tend to be pay as you go and quite casual. I don't think I'll ever understand immigration! 

This about 'leisure courses' is correct.  We are trying to get the rule changed so that some courses are exempt from the rule on the grounds that taking the course is *INCIDENTAL* to the visit, and not the *PURPOSE* of the visit (the way the rule is worded by the way, works to our favor). 

But these things take time.  The best thing to do to help is to try and maintain UKY's nascent reputation within the government as a conscientious and well-informed place.

ETA:  forgot to mention that Leah has already written to them about the Dublin thing.  We'll see changes in the CTA controls next year.

just following up here.  What was the result of the channel hop?

Not planning the trip until early November for my birthday.  The IO's both said I'd be fine until then.   Thanks for the follow up.

Have there been any cases of people being removed or not been able to get their visas because they've taken a dance class?  I'm curious to hear what Vicky's take on it is.

I asked for a reading on this, and got it earlier this evening (F&G Committee).  The answer is yes, some people have had the book thrown at them, some were not removed but have attracted the ban for deception in follow-up applications, and others have not been caught.

Even for stuff as silly as aerobics classes and karaoke classes. 

The recommendation is that if you are contemplating a future visa application to the UK, and you are a visitor, you should speak with a lawyer before taking a course of any sort. 

As mentioned above, there's still advocacy initiatives on getting exemptions, and when those bear fruit, I'll advise.  But those things take a looooooooooong time.

I asked for a reading on this, and got it earlier this evening (F&G Committee).  The answer is yes, some people have had the book thrown at them, some were not removed but have attracted the ban for deception in follow-up applications, and others have not been caught.

Even for stuff as silly as aerobics classes and karaoke classes. 

Wow, that's fascinating (not in a good way).  Thanks for reporting back on it.

Wow, that's fascinating (not in a good way).  Thanks for reporting back on it.

Fascinating and bizarre!  My first trip to N. Ireland (about 10 years ago) was specifically for a week-long music workshop and there were several other Americans in the class.

The purpose of every trip I have taken to the Republic of Ireland has been for Irish music classes, lessons, workshops (I know--that's not the UK, thank goodness!)