Business visa needed?

Hello,

I am taking a business trip to the UK, leaving on Saturday.  While I'm there, I'll be in meetings, and training with various groups for a project that is also launching here in the US, where I work.  I'm getting conflicting information from our HR offices, and the Embassy wasn't very helpful.  Do I need a business visa for this trip?  From what I can tell from the UK Border website, no, as I won't be doing actual work, rather training and taking meetings.  I won't even have access to the databases we use here, so I really won't be able to do any work, even if I wanted to.The length of the visit is 5 weeks, I have a letter from our office, and the return ticket has been purchased.  Thoughts?

The kicker is this, though--my company will be applying for an intra-company transfer for me after I return to the US, as they will need me to actually be able to work on this project over the next year.  Will my business visit harm my permit chances?

Part of the INF2 guidance notes reads, as per this webpage :-

Can I carry out any business during my visit?
As a visitor, you can do the following.

    * Go to meetings, conferences, trade fairs or seminars - including being a guest speaker - as long as the conference or seminar is a one-off event and not part of an ongoing business arrangement.
    * Buy, check details of or examine goods.
    * Deliver goods from abroad, for example as a lorry driver.
    * Negotiate or sign trade agreements or contracts.
    * Go for interviews - this can include a sportsperson going for "trial", or an entertainer going for an audition.
    * Carry out fact-finding missions, such as a journalist going on a short assignment to cover a story.
    * Act as an adviser, consultant, trainer or investigator, as long as you are employed abroad, either directly or under contract, by the same company (or group of companies) to which the UK client firm belongs, but:
          o your involvement must not include actually managing the project or providing consultancy services direct to the UK company's clients, and
          o training should be for a specific, one-off purpose, should not go beyond classroom instruction, and should not be otherwise readily available in the UK.
    * Act as tour-group carriers working for a firm outside the UK who want to enter the UK to carry out short-term duties but do not want to base themselves permanently in the UK.
    * Act as interpreters or translators if you already work for an overseas company and you are travelling with business visitors from the company and working for them only.
    * Act as representatives of computer-software companies coming to install, upgrade or repair their products. You can also visit the UK to find out the requirements of a UK customer. However, if you would be expected to provide a detailed assessment of a possible new customer's needs, we would consider this to be consultancy work and you would need a work permit for it.
    * Act as a representative of a foreign company coming to put up, take down, install, service, repair or give advice about machinery made abroad.
    * Take part in training techniques and work practices that we use in the UK, as long as training just involves watching demonstrations and classroom instruction only.

You cannot:

    * take paid or unpaid work
    * produce goods or provide services in the UK, or
    * sell goods and services to members of the public.

If a UK company has invited you to visit the UK you should provide a letter from the company explaining what you will be doing and the purpose of the trip. If your company or the UK company is paying for the trip this should also be confirmed in the letter.

Whether you are visiting the UK for business or social reasons, you can only stay for a maximum of six months. If you often visit the UK, you can apply for a visa that is valid for one, two, five or 10 years. You can then visit the UK as often as you like while your visa is still valid, but you can only stay for up to six months on each visit.

Right, so techically, I'm fine.  I was just trying to err on the side of caution, you know?  I'm taking advantage of the time I'm there to do some weekend trips, too.  Should I mention it's business and vacation to the immigrations officer? 

Should I mention it's business and vacation to the immigrations officer? 

Yes, of course, answers all questions truthfully.

Indeed, that list, as posted above, why not print it out, and use a highlighter to indicate what categories of activity you will be doing. That would indicate to the IO that you have clearly given some thought to this issue, and that all your activities are on the "you can do the following" list.

Right, so techically, I'm fine.  I was just trying to err on the side of caution, you know?  I'm taking advantage of the time I'm there to do some weekend trips, too.  Should I mention it's business and vacation to the immigrations officer? 

What my company used to do, is to have a signed letter on corporate leader head from my HR department that stated the duration and the purpose of my business trip and I only profferred this if asked by UK Borders on entry (which was never, basically it was IO: "How long are you here for?" Me: "2 weeks" IO: "What is your purpose?" Me: "Business meetings with my UK counterparts" *stamp* *stamp* IO: "Here you go...")

Thanks so much!  I'll do just that.  This is reassuring.  I started to read some of the other forums and got concerned, but I'm not hiding anything.  I just don't want anything to hinder the permit application in the next couple of months and I've been reading in other posts how people have been flagged in the past for various reasons.

Thanks so much!  I'll do just that.  This is reassuring.  I started to read some of the other forums and got concerned, but I'm not hiding anything.  I just don't want anything to hinder the permit application in the next couple of months and I've been reading in other posts how people have been flagged in the past for various reasons.

Best policy is: 1. Be 100% honest 2. Only answer and provide what you are asked for.

My letter from my employer detailing my time there has the time agreed upon as October 13th, not 11th, when I arrive.  Will this be an issue?  Again, return tickets and letter detail exactly when I leave, not sure if the entry date will be an issue.

You won't even be asked for the letter...    But showing up a couple days ahead of doing business is perfectly acceptable thing to do!  Again, don't show the letter unless asked for proof of your business activties...  If you walk up to the IO and plop down a bunch of stuff, then they are going to start wondering what you are hiding.  I did your type of trips 10 times a year for two years before settling in the UK and never once did I have to proffer the letter.

Thanks again!  I'm just going to have it with me.  I was just concerned as my trip is 5 weeks, and I was worried they would be concerned, as it's a little longer than the standard 1-2 week business trip.

When you settled in the UK, did they question you about all the business travel?  I'm going to be back in the US when we apply and obviously here until it is approved, but I just want to make sure I have everything so I can make it as straightforward a permit application as possible.  Granted, it's an inter-company transfer, so I hope that smooths things along to some degree, but I am just trying to prepare myself for any hurdles!

Remember that ICT's after 27 Nov will require a class A Sponsorship License.  If it your company will have everything done before then, you won't be affected.

They will be applying November 17th.

They will be applying November 17th.

In under the wire! 

I know!  It makes me anxious.  Hopefully the application is straightforward.  Now, is the 27th the date they have to have the application postmarked, or in progress?  Our HR department seems a little uninformed, so I want to make sure they are all set.

Also, what are my responsibilities when it comes to the work permit application?  Anything in particular, or does the entire thing go through HR? 

Sorry about all the questions! 

When you settled in the UK, did they question you about all the business travel? 

My problem is I met someone while working in Europe and I came back on social terms, not business... 

But, I think it would normally be a logical progression... several business meetings getting everything ready and then when you actually come to work in the UK you follow the proper process.  I doubt they will bat an eye around the previous travel.