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Topic: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...  (Read 13707 times)

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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2008, 03:17:37 PM »
Jedi, I understand where you are coming from.  My mom (due to no fault of her own) had a hysterectomy, brain surgery, and then sciatica (sp?) and was in a wheelchair for 6 months, all within a few years time.  Her and my stepfather have excellent insurance by most standards, but somehow due to deductibles, medications, etc., they ended up seriously in debt (I think $20,000 to $30,000), as they had to put most of these things on their credit card, add interest, and presto!
My FIL (here in the UK) has needed heart surgery and takes many different medications each day, etc., and has never had to pay a dime out of pocket for anything, except of course, the money he paid in to NHS over the years.  Which is enough, I suppose!
I have had psoriasis since I was 16 years old, and even when I had insurance, no one covered my skin creams.  I spent about $300/month for medications to treat it (yeah, I know it isn't a life threatening illness, but it isn't always easy to live with) and I was a waitress going through college, so I didn't have much.  I really understand how hard it is to deal with the health system in the US.  
Since I have been here, I have gotten treatment for my psoriasis, or at least I have been seen and given the same medications I had in the US, except now they cost about the equivalent of $14.  I do feel lucky.  But from what I understand of the system, it has it's drawbacks, too.  As someone else said, it seems they tend to just send you away and dismiss most things as a "cold" so I am not sure your bronchitis would have gotten as much attention over here as you might think.  They seem to just let things heal on their own in many cases, rather than prescribing antibiotics and running tests, etc.  Which actually seems to do some good.  I mean, in the US, I used to get antibiotics a few times per year for sinus infections, when plenty of times it might have cleared up on its own.  I have needed to make an adjustment to how I feel about medical treatment.  As my DH tells me, you don't need to go to the doctor for everything.  Most of the time, with a little patience and TLC, a lot of things clear up on their own.   Just because you can go to the doc anytime you want doesn't mean they will run tons of tests and do all the things doctors in America would do.  And sometimes people don't get the cancer treatments, etc., that might extend their lives because the cost of those things could be used to care for several other people.  I don't know how they prioritize these cases, it's just what I have seen on the news.  
So, I don't guess NHS is perfect, but it is definitely better than suffering because you can't afford to go to the doctor, or going into debt when you do give in and finally go, or are forced to due to accident or injury.
Everyone on here says that medical care isn't a reason to emigrate to another country.  I'm not saying you should or shouldn't.  People have left their home countries for all sorts of reasons, many of them were looking for a better life.  You might have a better life somewhere else where there is national healthcare.  But, I think you should prepare yourself for all the other changes that would go along with that, and seeing as how it may take a long while to get close to ready to move, I would suggest getting any insurance you can.  Some private insurance may be more affordable, and coming from the Dallas area myself, I know there are several low cost medical clinics in the area that you could go to, I usually paid about $60/visit, which I know can be a lot of money when you are broke, but it's still cheaper than most offices.  One clinic I used to go to in Richardson charged me $55/visit due to my being a private pay patient.  Some doctors really will give you a break.  And I know Parkland Hospital is terrible, but you can make appointments there for a few months in advance, and some people I know have had to wait a long time to be seen by an NHS provider (especially in Canada, from what I am told), so you would most likely face similar inconveniences anyway.  
Either way, you can manage your health yourself with diet and exercise, and do your best to get healthy on your own in the meantime.  Good advice for everyone, I think!!   :D


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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2008, 03:23:01 PM »
Jedi, I understand where you are coming from.  My mom (due to no fault of her own) had a hysterectomy, brain surgery, and then sciatica (sp?) and was in a wheelchair for 6 months, all within a few years time.  Her and my stepfather have excellent insurance by most standards, but somehow due to deductibles, medications, etc., they ended up seriously in debt (I think $20,000 to $30,000), as they had to put most of these things on their credit card, add interest, and presto!
My FIL (here in the UK) has needed heart surgery and takes many different medications each day, etc., and has never had to pay a dime out of pocket for anything, except of course, the money he paid in to NHS over the years.  Which is enough, I suppose!
I have had psoriasis since I was 16 years old, and even when I had insurance, no one covered my skin creams.  I spent about $300/month for medications to treat it (yeah, I know it isn't a life threatening illness, but it isn't always easy to live with) and I was a waitress going through college, so I didn't have much.  I really understand how hard it is to deal with the health system in the US.  
Since I have been here, I have gotten treatment for my psoriasis, or at least I have been seen and given the same medications I had in the US, except now they cost about the equivalent of $14.  I do feel lucky.  But from what I understand of the system, it has it's drawbacks, too.  As someone else said, it seems they tend to just send you away and dismiss most things as a "cold" so I am not sure your bronchitis would have gotten as much attention over here as you might think.  They seem to just let things heal on their own in many cases, rather than prescribing antibiotics and running tests, etc.  Which actually seems to do some good.  I mean, in the US, I used to get antibiotics a few times per year for sinus infections, when plenty of times it might have cleared up on its own.  I have needed to make an adjustment to how I feel about medical treatment.  As my DH tells me, you don't need to go to the doctor for everything.  Most of the time, with a little patience and TLC, a lot of things clear up on their own.   Just because you can go to the doc anytime you want doesn't mean they will run tons of tests and do all the things doctors in America would do.  And sometimes people don't get the cancer treatments, etc., that might extend their lives because the cost of those things could be used to care for several other people.  I don't know how they prioritize these cases, it's just what I have seen on the news.  
So, I don't guess NHS is perfect, but it is definitely better than suffering because you can't afford to go to the doctor, or going into debt when you do give in and finally go, or are forced to due to accident or injury.
Everyone on here says that medical care isn't a reason to emigrate to another country.  I'm not saying you should or shouldn't.  People have left their home countries for all sorts of reasons, many of them were looking for a better life.  You might have a better life somewhere else where there is national healthcare.  But, I think you should prepare yourself for all the other changes that would go along with that, and seeing as how it may take a long while to get close to ready to move, I would suggest getting any insurance you can.  Some private insurance may be more affordable, and coming from the Dallas area myself, I know there are several low cost medical clinics in the area that you could go to, I usually paid about $60/visit, which I know can be a lot of money when you are broke, but it's still cheaper than most offices.  One clinic I used to go to in Richardson charged me $55/visit due to my being a private pay patient.  Some doctors really will give you a break.  And I know Parkland Hospital is terrible, but you can make appointments there for a few months in advance, and some people I know have had to wait a long time to be seen by an NHS provider (especially in Canada, from what I am told), so you would most likely face similar inconveniences anyway.  
Either way, you can manage your health yourself with diet and exercise, and do your best to get healthy on your own in the meantime.  Good advice for everyone, I think!!   :D

We have been looking for clinics like that, and I think that throwing a pill at every little thing is wrong and most docs now sat thats the reason so many people are getting infections that are hard to treat so that mentality is fine with me. We cant afford the insurance and the treatment at the same time. Thats the problem but it is nice to hear encouragement. Thank you.
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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2008, 03:41:07 PM »
I'm having a hard time comprehending this. You can't afford your medical bills, so you lose your house and declare bankruptcy.

But your medical bills are not included?

If you are broke, how are you supposed to pay back your bills? And what happens when you can't?

Is the idea whenever you get a dollar that it belongs to the hospital? Sounds like a modern equivalent of an indentured servant.



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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2008, 03:45:16 PM »
I'm having a hard time comprehending this. You can't afford your medical bills, so you lose your house and declare bankruptcy.

But your medical bills are not included?

If you are broke, how are you supposed to pay back your bills? And what happens when you can't?

Is the idea whenever you get a dollar that it belongs to the hospital? Sounds like a modern equivalent of an indentured servant.


In all actuallity, you are born into slavery here. Unless you are born to the ruling class, you are slaves to them and their rules. And its not the doc's fault either. Some times they dont get paid. Its the insurance comapines and the hospitals here that run for profit.
Do. Or do not. There is no Try.

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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2008, 03:46:02 PM »
I'm having a hard time comprehending this. You can't afford your medical bills, so you lose your house and declare bankruptcy.

But your medical bills are not included?

If you are broke, how are you supposed to pay back your bills? And what happens when you can't?

Is the idea whenever you get a dollar that it belongs to the hospital? Sounds like a modern equivalent of an indentured servant.



Oh, you can include every dollar you owe, but you may have to pay it back anyway.
Do. Or do not. There is no Try.

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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2008, 04:00:46 PM »
In all actuallity, you are born into slavery here. Unless you are born to the ruling class, you are slaves to them and their rules. And its not the doc's fault either. Some times they dont get paid. Its the insurance comapines and the hospitals here that run for profit.

My sister has a pre-existing condition.  She had a heart transplant at age 24 and needs to take anti-rejection drugs for the rest of her life.

Ever since she left my parents home, she's known that she needs to get jobs with great insurance.  Even if the job sucked, she did it because that's what she needed to do.

Not a slave, but the master of her own destiny - and definately not part of some 'ruling class'.
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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2008, 04:01:40 PM »
My sister has a pre-existing condition.  She had a heart transplant at age 24 and needs to take anti-rejection drugs for the rest of her life.

Ever since she left my parents home, she's known that she needs to get jobs with great insurance.  Even if the job sucked, she did it because that's what she needed to do.

Not a slave, but the master of her own destiny - and definately not part of some 'ruling class'.

If you HAVE to pay people to make sure they get rich off your pain and suffering thats a slave.
-edit
Heath care is a human right, not a privilage. You dont have to pay someone to make sure you are free. You pay taxes to make the government run but not to buy your freedom. And you either are part of the ruling class, or the working class. There is no in between.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 04:04:31 PM by jediknight36 »
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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2008, 04:05:40 PM »
clarelynn, essentially, federal bankruptcy law was rewritten in 2005 (a little gift from Dubya to the money men) in which full Chapter 7 bankruptcy (complete liquidation of the debts) is really only available to those already living below the poverty line according to a nationally administered means test.  The means test is the same regardless of whether you live in an area with higher or lower cost of living.

This wasn't targeted at medical debts particularly (the change in law), but rather as a helping hand to the credit card industry.  But of course many people end up in bankruptcy because of medical debt.  What the change in law meant is that more people have to go for Chapter 13 instead, which means there is a repayment scheme for some or all of the debts put in place by the bankruptcy court and you don't really get the 'fresh start' that Chapter 7 would have given you.
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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2008, 04:15:54 PM »
If you HAVE to pay people to make sure they get rich off your pain and suffering thats a slave.
-edit
Heath care is a human right, not a privilage. You dont have to pay someone to make sure you are free. You pay taxes to make the government run but not to buy your freedom. And you either are part of the ruling class, or the working class. There is no in between.

 ::)  Really? 
...the whole damn thing will turn
and return redefined, rearranged, rearranged...


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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2008, 04:20:53 PM »
Sorry, can't agree with your statements. Health care assumes responsibility on both parts, it's not a privilege it is a service. And, ruling class/working class? So people who "rule" don't work or their work is diminished by their position; I think not.

Quote
Heath care is a human right, not a privilage. You dont have to pay someone to make sure you are free. You pay taxes to make the government run but not to buy your freedom. And you either are part of the ruling class, or the working class. There is no in between.


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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2008, 04:22:28 PM »
::)  Really? 

Yes. It may be different on the moon (avatar) but here it is that way. One of the most famous people against social programs, Ronald Regan, once said that medicine is one of the most common tools to control a people. Welcome to the US. You will die here. That will be $100.
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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2008, 04:23:17 PM »
Sorry, can't agree with your statements. Health care assumes responsibility on both parts, it's not a privilege it is a service. And, ruling class/working class? So people who "rule" don't work or their work is diminished by their position; I think not.

Quote
Heath care is a human right, not a privilage. You dont have to pay someone to make sure you are free. You pay taxes to make the government run but not to buy your freedom. And you either are part of the ruling class, or the working class. There is no in between.


This isnt the place for this. PM me.
Do. Or do not. There is no Try.

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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2008, 04:29:25 PM »
Quote
federal bankruptcy law was rewritten in 2005 ...What the change in law meant is that more people have to go for Chapter 13 instead, which means there is a repayment scheme for some or all of the debts put in place by the bankruptcy court and you don't really get the 'fresh start' that Chapter 7 would have given you.

Amazing. It sounds pretty certain that most people driven into bankruptcy will be carrying forward debt, the only question being how much. Which would be determined by the judge.

A pseudo-bankruptcy.

Is debtor's prison next?

Sorry -- getting off topic here. I'll take the NHS any day.


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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2008, 04:41:39 PM »
Amazing. It sounds pretty certain that most people driven into bankruptcy will be carrying forward debt, the only question being how much. Which would be determined by the judge.

A pseudo-bankruptcy.

Is debtor's prison next?

Sorry -- getting off topic here. I'll take the NHS any day.

No, I dont think you are. NHS was established to prevent the very thing that has happened here in the US. And this is what I love about social programs. There is always room for improvement and you work together to do so. Its not about profit, its about the people.
Do. Or do not. There is no Try.

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Re: I know NHS isnt perfect, but...
« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2008, 04:51:12 PM »
Karin, I really don't think any of us is in a position to make assumptions about the OP's health issues or about what is responsible for them.  :-\\\\

Exactly.

Hijack: Diabetes- I volunteer for Diabetes UK and there is an enormous amount of misinformation out there about what cause's it. Its not anyone's fault- it genetics and envionmental factors. Yes, lifestyle can help reduce insulin resistance, but there are numerous other reason's why it happens.  Chances are, even if you live a healthy life, if you have impaired glucose tolerance and you reduce by lifestyle, as you get into older age, it will come back anyways.
Hijack over

As for the NHS, its far from perfect, but at least no one has to go without.
Massachusetts has a pretty good balance for the US system though. (Its not without faults either though.     
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