I know NHS isnt perfect, but...

You seem so set on moving to the UK and have purposely ignored and rebutted any negative thing that anyone had said, so it appears that you don't want honest answers, you just want people to pat you on the back and confirm that you're making the right choice.

I think you are picking and choicing what you want to hear.  People are telling you real problems and you say that you aren't a child, yet you also tell people that they must have forgotten what the US was like (i.e. since all of us don't necessarily have the same attitude of gloom towards the US that you do).  

I will say as well, I have know several US citizens to have moved both to the UK and Japan, and many of them WILL say that the UK is worse.  Mostly because Japan is SO different, you expect it to be different, but then they underestimate how different the UK will be.  Take that or leave it.

I will also say, you need to be more realistic about your job prospects.  You state you will be smart enough to have jobs in the UK to cover expenses.  In loads of earlier posts, you have indicated you are unable to do this in the US though.  Many US citizens find it very difficult to get jobs in the UK.  Qualifications do not always translate.  Some degrees are ignored.  And frankly some may be less willing to employ a US person rather than a UK person for a variety of reasons.  Also the recruiting process can be very drawn out here... months in fact.  If you don't want to believe me, do a poll and see how difficult people have found it to find a job.  How will you pay your expenses for perhaps months?

I complete agree with helle_chic, your options are almost certain better if you explore practical solutions in the US.  Some of your earlier figures do not add up and I am curious if you do know all your options in the US.

And to answer your original question, at your request.  I personally do not compare the UK system to the US system.  In my specific experience, it is apples and oranges.  Both have pros and cons, which makes it silly to say one is better than the other.  

In the US, yes I had to pay more out of pocket up front but I am not convinced the costs are actually more.  I have thought about comparing the amount I paid in taxes plus insurance in the US, to the increased taxes in the UK and see if it is truly more.  My guess is that it wouldn't be that different, it just seems the US is more because I was seeing it come out of my bank account more frequently.

In the US, I personally found the doctors more responsive.  I never felt like I was bothering them or being silly about my requests.  If trying to figure out what was wrong, I felt like the doctor actually lead the situation and tried to find solutions.

In the UK, I find the opposite.  I often feel guilty about seeing the GP.  I have previously been made to feel like I was jumping the gun seeing them and they wanted me to wait weeks with the ailment first.  I do have a new GP now that isn't like that, so that is an improvement.  I actually have permenant damage to a foot, which I broke, and the UK system said wait and see how it goes.  It reset a bit wonky on its own and I have problems with it now.  I would not have had that happen in the US.

As someone else has mentioned as well, I have to completely direct my own care in the UK.  I go to the doctor and tell them what I want done.  What medicine or procedure.  There is very little discussion of options.  I have a chronic illness and luckly I know alot about it and CAN direct my care.  But I am not a doctor and I don't always know the options, so it bothers me that if I weren't viligent then I would get poorer care in the UK.

That being said, I have had surgery (same procedure) in the US and the UK and had very similar successful results.  So it is interesting that the methods are completely different from A to B, but I have ended up getting decent treatment in both places overall.  Well, except for that foot.

ETA:  I have private insurance here in the UK.  Given that I do have a chronic illness, there is no way I would ever be without private insurance.  The difference in care is night and day.

Back in the states I had a major knee injury.  I went to the ER, saw an orthopedic surgeon, had knee surgery, and went through physiotherapy, one after another, right away.  At the time I was working an entry-level desk job without a college degree that anyone could do.  My benefits were very reasonable.  I probably paid $400 or so out of pocket for the whole thing, which was tough on my salary, but very do-able.

I had a nasty fall on my knee here, back in August.  I went to my GP, had my medical history faxed over, and pushed the need for physio and a scan.  It's almost November.  Nothing but a letter saying I am on a looooong waitlist.  I live in West Kensington, so theoretically the post code lottery shoud be kind to me.  So far, it has cost 10 weeks of pain, inactivity which is affecting my lifestyle and a 6 pound weight gain.

If I had the choice, I'd take scenario 1 again.

Almost identical medical scenarios, one in each country.  Does that answer your question?

I have been in the UK for two months.  I have registered with my GP and was amazed at how fast I was able to get in and see him.  He requested lab work and had me call to make an appointment at the hospital for drawing blood.  I got the phone number, reference number and password and now three weeks later, I am still trying to get through to the appointment desk. Twice I've been told that they have NO appointments available and to call back.  Trying to book online also tells me there are no appointments available.  Free service is wonderful if the service is actually available.  Otherwise, like the others say, take a number please and wait your turn.

You seem so set on moving to the UK and have purposely ignored and rebutted any negative thing that anyone had said, so it appears that you don't want honest answers, you just want people to pat you on the back and confirm that you're making the right choice.

No thats not it. We have found good jobs here. Jobs here, in my area with our experence do not pay enough or do not have good benefits. Either/or. I keep saying this over and over. Why would I just appear in the UK without a job? Would anyone? Is that even legal there? I thought you had to prove you could support yourself? And as far as taxes, unless there has been a tremendous rate hike in the Uk in 12 months, the average tax percentage was slightly LOWER in the UK than here. And if a doctor here wont see us because we dont have insurance, what good is he to us?

Thing is, companies in the area are charging more for the insurances or dropping them all together. And we cant afford to pay into a system that we cant use. And I refuse to let this system rob us just to make itself richer.

The US is just ahead of Slovenia in the best care in the world, we have a higher child mortality rate, a slow ER where I have seen people die in, and the system is making people homeless. I am ashamed to live in a country where they dump seniors on the street because they cant pay their bills at hospitals and will tell people with staff infections to deal with it. I dont choose to have a bad outlook on this system I CHOOSE TO LOOK AT IT FOR WHAT IT IS AND AM ASHAMED OF IT!

Quit attacking me for what I want to do here. I am sure your reasons for moving half way across the globe are not much better than gaining a better life.

Dude, the US has an appalling infant mortality rate because a) we classify very tiny premies as babies (not all countries do) b) we try to save more of them than most other countries and c) you can offer all the free prenatal care in the world, but you can't make a hillbilly take advantage of it (note: using loaded word "hillbillies" because I am one and therefore I can, per the Identity Politics Handbook).

You're adding a buttload of propaganda into whatever bad personal experiences you may have. This will not make for a well-thought-out life decision.

No one is 'attacking' you. People are being forthright and giving you their honest opinions. I think your whole planning and 'research' has been completely flawed but no one has insulted you or attacked you for it. People are just trying to open your eyes to the reality you refuse to acknowledge. But if you want to pretend that everything is going to be a bed of roses in the UK, then maybe you shouldn't ask for honest opinions and instead just ask for success stories. That might make you feel more justified or happy about your decision. If you just want stories about people's interactions with the NHS and not actual opinions, then, as has already been said several times, just read any of the thousands of threads in this forum discussing the good and the bad.

And if elderly care is one of your reasons for wanting to move to the UK you really are whistling in the dark...


Vicky

No one is 'attacking' you. People are being forthright and giving you their honest opinions. I think your whole planning and 'research' has been completely flawed but no one has insulted you or attacked you for it. People are just trying to open your eyes to the reality you refuse to acknowledge. But if you want to pretend that everything is going to be a bed of roses in the UK, then maybe you shouldn't ask for honest opinions and instead just ask for success stories. That might make you feel more justified or happy about your decision. If you just want stories about people's interactions with the NHS and not actual opinions, then, as has already been said several times, just read any of the thousands of threads in this forum discussing the good and the bad.

We dont think it will be "a bed of roses" but I do feel that people on this board are attacking me for what we know is a better decision than to stay here and deal with the fact that people are dying because of this system. There is no propaganda for what one has seen with ones eyes. I see it every time we have to go to the ER, every time we had to go to charity, every time I look at my wife's leg to dress it. The system dosnt work for us, nor does it work for 46 million people at all, and it dosnt work well for the other 250 million. Do you have a better reason to leave this country that you actually put your life on the line to fight for?

Edit: And look at these lists for Decliable Conditions. These are just two companies!

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:-c_Whr51Y6QJ:www.cigna.com/customer_care/broker/in_your_state/pdf/underwriting_guidelines.pdf+list+of+Declinable+Conditions&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://74.125.95.104/search?q=cache:an0cktYiitIJ:www.fracturedatlas.org/site/healthcare/includes/assurant_declineable_conditions.pdf+list+of+Declinable+Conditions&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Back in the states I had a major knee injury.  I went to the ER, saw an orthopedic surgeon, had knee surgery, and went through physiotherapy, one after another, right away.  At the time I was working an entry-level desk job without a college degree that anyone could do.  My benefits were very reasonable.  I probably paid $400 or so out of pocket for the whole thing, which was tough on my salary, but very do-able.

I had a nasty fall on my knee here, back in August.  I went to my GP, had my medical history faxed over, and pushed the need for physio and a scan.  It's almost November.  Nothing but a letter saying I am on a looooong waitlist.  I live in West Kensington, so theoretically the post code lottery shoud be kind to me.  So far, it has cost 10 weeks of pain, inactivity which is affecting my lifestyle and a 6 pound weight gain.

If I had the choice, I'd take scenario 1 again.

Almost identical medical scenarios, one in each country.  Does that answer your question?

So you only paid $400 period. No co-pays, no deductible, or premiums? Cmon!

Yes, the complete US insurance system is a mess. I don't think too many people disagree with you there.
But the health care in the US is fantastic, if you have a way to pay for it. The NHS health care isn't substandard or anything, but just different.  Stiff upper lip kind of thing.  I'm going on 2.5 months of pain for something and I've stopped going to the doctor for it, because the just tell me to wait and it will go away. I didn't even get good pain meds, because they told me that anything too strong would just make me loopy and not take the pain away. I have good days and bad days, so I'll take the good days and cry on the bad days.  I haven't had this condition in the states, so I can't comment on whether it would be any better in the states or not.

I think everyone here just wants you to look at all sides of the picture and just realize that its not a 100% rosy life for many.  Many people move here and hate it- the weather, the food, not making friends, having trouble finding work, not making a lot of money as compared to the US or having a big house, having to take driving lessons, etc.    
I think everyone here can respect you wanting to move and figure things out, they're just trying to show that there is a lot more to moving than just NHS.  Maybe its because we speak english that we expect it to be an easy transition. For some it is (like me! I love it here, but I never had any expectations except adventure), but for others, its not and they struggle.  

So you only paid $400 period. No co-pays, no deductible, or premiums? Cmon!

That sounds about right, if she had a corporate plan like mine. Premiums are part of the salary package (I pay them, but they're deducted before I see them, and the company pays more than I do), no deductible as a rule, and my office co-pays are, like, $15 a visit. I could go through a surgery like that for $400 out of pocket.

And I'm not in a corner office, either. The guy who vacuums the office at night and the guy who cooks my breakfast in the company canteen are on the same plan.

the fact that people are dying because of this system.

And you don't think they are here?  Particularly the elderly and people with cancer or chronic conditions who cannot get the drugs that can help them because of the postcode lottery or because of waitlists.  Did you know, also, that in some NHS trusts, if you privately fund ANY of the care for your condition, such as buy cancer drugs that your trust won't pay for privately, the NHS will no longer treat you for your condition at all?

I bought Kaiser in the US - after my bankrupcy.  It was only $165/month - I was on my own at the time and this was after I got a job (no, they didn't offer insurance because they were under 50 employees).

Also, if you do research, you'll also realise states have different laws regarding insurance.

Some don't allow companies to exclude people because of pre-existing conditions.

But hey ho, you're saying you haven't got any money to even visit here for another two years, and then you'll have to pay all the immigration and relocation costs.  Plenty of time to find a way to get insurance in the US.

So you only paid $400 period. No co-pays, no deductible, or premiums? Cmon!

Yeah, that's possible.  In 2005 I had a good job in New York City with good health benefits, for which we only paid $10 per month.  I had surgery to repair a deviated septum, and while I don't remember what I paid for it, it wasn't more than a couple hundred bucks, if that.

That's not to say the US health care system is great, but if you've got a good job with good benefits, it's not bad at all.

Yes, the complete US insurance system is a mess. I don't think too many people disagree with you there.
But the health care in the US is fantastic, if you have a way to pay for it. The NHS health care isn't substandard or anything, but just different.  Stiff upper lip kind of thing.  I'm going on 2.5 months of pain for something and I've stopped going to the doctor for it, because the just tell me to wait and it will go away. I didn't even get good pain meds, because they told me that anything too strong would just make me loopy and not take the pain away. I have good days and bad days, so I'll take the good days and cry on the bad days.  I haven't had this condition in the states, so I can't comment on whether it would be any better in the states or not.

I think everyone here just wants you to look at all sides of the picture and just realize that its not a 100% rosy life for many.  Many people move here and hate it- the weather, the food, not making friends, having trouble finding work, not making a lot of money as compared to the US or having a big house, having to take driving lessons, etc.    
I think everyone here can respect you wanting to move and figure things out, they're just trying to show that there is a lot more to moving than just NHS.  Maybe its because we speak english that we expect it to be an easy transition. For some it is (like me! I love it here, but I never had any expectations except adventure), but for others, its not and they struggle.  

I dont think everything will be easy. And, yes adventure plays a part of it. But honestly if every one had UHC, then, we probably would not have considered moving to europe at this point in our lives. What I hate is for people to tell me I am wrong for trying to improve our quality of life. From the outside looking in Europe has a better quality of live. We dont need big houses or American food to be happy and I was hoping to find friends here, but it seems like this board is similar to gajinpot.com's board and they dont want anymore foreigners there.