is health care that bad in the uk?

Healthcare in the U.K. is just as it is in America; if you have money, you can get great care, but if you don't, you can get screwed.

I would disagree with this statement, for the reasons stated earlier.  You might get seen quicker if you are private, but very often you get the same level of care, and very often NHS care is excellent. And if talking about emergency medicine, the amount of money you have is irrelevant.

Vicky

Your best bet in either nation is private health insurance.

I think 'bet' is the operative word here! 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm happy not to have to gamble my life's savings on my health.

I would disagree with this statement, for the reasons stated earlier.  You might get seen quicker if you are private, but very often you get the same level of care, and very often NHS care is excellent. And if talking about emergency medicine, the amount of money you have is irrelevant.

Vicky

Notice I did say "CAN."  It's a generalisation that allows for disparity.  Much like the phrase "very often."  There is nothing different in your statements than mine!

well I did talk to him and he told me that the health care that helps all the people dosent cover all the things he will need to be done, they can pay for some of it but he will have to pay the rest and wait awhile, so he said if he has to wait that long he might not last, cause he has hard time even going to work...so he said he will stop going to work soon, they did give him loads of meds but they make him feel crappy so he sleeps all day..he dosent have insurance or had cause he couldnt afford it.

Well, seeing that we don't know what's wrong with him, and what is the treatment proposed by the NHS, and what is the treatment beyond that he says he needs, and (crucially) not being doctors, and (even more crucially) not being his doctor, it's very hard to say very much beyond that Britain's health service is not third world, it is up there with the best in the world.

I've personally observed one excellent experience with the NHS and one absolutely terrible experience.  Both emergent situations - the good experience was a broken leg with  very obvious deformation.  Treatment was quick and they did absolutely the right thing. However, we saw patients with similar problems who were not treated right away, some waited a week for their surgery after a broken elbow resulting in a totally deformed arm!!!   

The bad was a possible stroke and they did not do ANY of the definitive diagnostic tests - they just dismissed it out of hand because of age (even though the GP was convinced it was a stroke and gave the appropriate referral!).  I KNOW that in North America (even Canada with their socialised health care and the US with the insurance we had), they would have done the necessary tests to rule out or diagnose stroke.  Here, for whatever reason, most likely post code lottery and they'd used up their quota for the month, they would not do any of the necessary tests.  Then they gave a diagnosis and after doing a bit of our own research, we learned that they didn't even do the appropriate tests to rule that diagnosis out OR in! Also, the emergency room doc we saw initially, told us to "go home and look [the diagnosis] up on the internet"!! Which we did and saw that he was totally wrong!

The hospital where we went for both situations was absolutely disgustingly dirty.  There is no way that any hospital should be in that kind of state.  Even the toilets were so gross, I refused to use them.   

I have to say, for preventative medicine, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in the NHS.  It is so difficult to get an appointment at our GP that most times, when we would go to the doctor otherwise, we just don't bother. 

And also, when we went for immunisations at our GP, the nurse did not sterilise the area before injection.  She used no alcohol swab at all.  I thought that was absolutely standard procedure. 

well I did talk to him and he told me that the health care that helps all the people dosent cover all the things he will need to be done, they can pay for some of it but he will have to pay the rest and wait awhile,

That isn't how the NHS works.  If a doctor says he needs a particular treatment / operation, and that treatment is available in the UK, he will get it.  He may have to wait, but he will get it.  The NHS never ask a patient to pay for his own treatment.

It may be that he wants treatment which his doctors don't think he needs, or which isn't approved by the PCT, or that it isn't available in his area (the postcode lottery is another story, as is the different treatments available in Scotland to the rest of the UK) and therefore it is only available to him privately. 

Vicky

okay..thanks for all the info and help

And also, when we went for immunisations at our GP, the nurse did not sterilise the area before injection.  She used no alcohol swab at all.  I thought that was absolutely standard procedure. 

No it isn't. Cleaning with water or alcohol if the skin is particularly dirty is probably a good idea though. Water is just as good as alcohol and cheaper.

Facing nhs health care for the rest of my life, has made me want to go home. I was at my doctor's surgery just today and left with no solutions to the pain I am experiencing. No follow up tests are scheduled. They gave me codine. and sent me on my way. Said to come back in a month. While I was there I asked for a refill on a drug I need to take for life and have been on for 12 years. I had to talk the dr into it and then he gave me half strength. If all that wasnt enough he got into a whole weight discussion, which left me feeling humiliated.
Two years ago I woke up in pain and went to the a&E. They diagnosed a kidney stone. They had no urologist on staff, so I had to lay around for 5 hours until I could be transported to another hospital. I could have been driven there in 10 minutes, but they refused to remove the stent or let me leave with it in place. When I got to the next place I was told I was to be admitted. I asked if it could be treated as out patient and was given a form to sign saying I had refused treatment. How dare I ask a question about my own care I guess. Later I found out the reason for admission was so I could be given an ultra sound. Seems they dont have those in their emergency rooms here and by the time I got transported the radiology dept had gone home for the night.

Never have I felt humiliatd or degraded by any doctor in the united states. I have here on two of two occasions. If I felt I wasnt getting the care I wanted in the states I told the doctor why I felt that way and always asked alot of questions about the care I was getting. It seems that's just not done here.

Solution for this is unknown at this time, but  fight home sure sounds good.

Interesting… as, as a Brit in America, the NHS is one of the reasons I definitely WOULD move back.  I’ve found the standard of car in the US to be similar to that in the UK, and the hospital I have used in the US is generally considered to be one of the best in the country.  In the UK however, I’ve never been left thinking “I wonder how much this is going to cost me?”.  To add to that, I have a year old nephew in the US who is very seriously ill and has been in hospital for several months now (Leukemia).  His health bill is now in excess of $2 million and the insurance will only cover 80%.  Would that happen in the UK? Erm… no. Is the treatment any better? Nope.  His parents are facing a financial black hole. 

Contrast this with my nephew in the UK.  He was also ill recently (though thank goodness nowhere near as bad as my US nephew).  The treatment he received from Great Ormand Street was fantastic.  His parents were given a house to stay in near the hospital, so they could be near him, completely free of charge.  When he was discharged after 10 days there were no bills, charges, co pays or excesses. No forms to fill in before he was treated. Just world class, free (at the point of use) healthcare.

Plus in the UK people live longer and infant mortality rates are lower. 

People like to hear bad stories about the NHS. In the UK papers (Daily Mail) you’ll see “horror” stories about patient care.  But then we’re a nation of complainers and someone receiving excellent care doesn’t make a good news story does it?  The NHS, is, without doubt one of the best all round medical systems in the world.  Being stuck in ga-ga land – I miss knowing I have that standard of free healthcare a LOT.

OCBrit

Edit - to clarify - when i say gaga land i specifically mean OC, not the US (before you all jump on me for that one  ) which, while i like it a lot is like nowhere else I've ever been on earth. boob job anyone?

Interesting… as, as a Brit in America, the NHS is one of the reasons I definitely WOULD move back.  I’ve found the standard of car in the US to be similar to that in the UK, and the hospital I have used in the US is generally considered to be one of the best in the country.  In the UK however, I’ve never been left thinking “I wonder how much this is going to cost me?”.  To add to that, I have a year old nephew in the US who is very seriously ill and has been in hospital for several months now (Leukemia).  His health bill is now in excess of $2 million and the insurance will only cover 80%.  Would that happen in the UK? Erm… no. Is the treatment any better? Nope.  His parents are facing a financial black hole. 

Contrast this with my nephew in the UK.  He was also ill recently (though thank goodness nowhere near as bad as my US nephew).  The treatment he received from Great Ormand Street was fantastic.  His parents were given a house to stay in near the hospital, so they could be near him, completely free of charge.  When he was discharged after 10 days there were no bills, charges, co pays or excesses. No forms to fill in before he was treated. Just world class, free (at the point of use) healthcare.

Plus in the UK people live longer and infant mortality rates are lower. 

People like to hear bad stories about the NHS. In the UK papers (Daily Mail) you’ll see “horror” stories about patient care.  But then we’re a nation of complainers and someone receiving excellent care doesn’t make a good news story does it?  The NHS, is, without doubt one of the best all round medical systems in the world.  Being stuck in ga-ga land – I miss knowing I have that standard of free healthcare a LOT.

OCBrit

Edit - to clarify - when i say gaga land i specifically mean OC, not the US (before you all jump on me for that one  ) which, while i like it a lot is like nowhere else I've ever been on earth. boob job anyone?

Thank you ocbrit. The feelings you expressed are EXACTLY mine. And one of the reason I did, in fact come home to the UK after horrendous neglect at the hands of US doctors.

Personally, I am willing to accept things such as doctors asking me "rude" questions, hospital equipment being adequate and no more, short waits for treatment, in fact more than willing, HAPPY to accept them because I know that they are part of the price of having a healthcare system that treats health as a right, and NOT as a commodity to be bought and sold, which I think is obscene. That's a kind of "dirt" that you don't see in NHS hospitals.

Just my two penn'orth.

Two years ago I woke up in pain and went to the a&E. They diagnosed a kidney stone. They had no urologist on staff, so I had to lay around for 5 hours until I could be transported to another hospital.

I'm not saying this is great, but it's certainly not unique to the UK. In the US, my mother was terminally ill for years and I can't tell you how many times we were left waiting up to 12 hours in the ER. I spent a lot of nights there - probably once every three months or so. It's a problem of understaffing, not enough equipment, etc., and I'm afraid it's universal. My mother had great insurance in the US, by the way, so that wasn't the issue.

If all that wasnt enough he got into a whole weight discussion, which left me feeling humiliated.

Humiliating, yes. You'll get no argument from me about that. But it's also his job. My father was an MD in the US and he gave every overweight patient he saw the weight lecture. I've been on the receiving end of it many a time and it's not fun but, as a doctor, he feels it's his responsibility to point out ways in which a patient could improve his/her health.

Personally, I am willing to accept things such as doctors asking me "rude" questions, hospital equipment being adequate and no more, short waits for treatment, in fact more than willing, HAPPY to accept them because I know that they are part of the price of having a healthcare system that treats health as a right, and NOT as a commodity to be bought and sold, which I think is obscene. That's a kind of "dirt" that you don't see in NHS hospitals.

Just my two penn'orth.

I'm with contrex on this one. When you boil it right down to plain speaking, the US "system" of health care is nothing more than a business, a commodity to be bought and sold, no better than any car dealership or furniture store.

You don't have the money, you can't have the nice shiny car. You don't have the dosh for that leukemia treatment? Then go away and die.

Quite frankly that is exactly what I found the situation to be over there, and it IS obscene. I personally knew people who had the best private insurance in the land and they still wound up denied treatment, given bad care, and bankrupt. 60% of US bankruptcies are filed directly due to a medical crisis having ruined the family finances, insured or not.