is health care that bad in the uk?

I've just seen 'Sicko' for the first time...yeah, I know I left it late...but I have never been so glad that this is where I live.


Vicky

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the sensational puddings that one gets while in an NHS hospital, almost worth having a baby for themselves! Jam Crumble with custard, steamed pudding with custard, OMG, I am having a craving for NHS Desserts now!!!

And if you don't eat your main (which is always horrible) they will give you DOUBLE PUDS!!!

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the sensational puddings that one gets while in an NHS hospital, almost worth having a baby for themselves! Jam Crumble with custard, steamed pudding with custard, OMG, I am having a craving for NHS Desserts now!!!

And if you don't eat your main (which is always horrible) they will give you DOUBLE PUDS!!!

Oh Racheeeee,

Now my mouth is watering remembering...I had 5 days of them after having my DD earlier this year...OK where's the chocolate?, gotta have something 'cause another baby is not an option at the moment.

Really? Hm. I may have to rescind my 'no babies' rule for jam crumble.

Vicky, the thing that's the most horrible about Sicko is that most of the people he spoke to actually HAD insurance and they still couldn't get treatment or had to pay a fortune. My dad once bought me government insurance ($800 a month,) and I still had to pay $3k for a CAT scan.

Yes, I found that the most worrying.  People thinking that, because they pay what the HMO's ask, that they will be covered in the event of illness, where that is obviously not always true.


Vicky

Honestly, the private health care system in the US is the number one reason that I won't ever seriously consider moving back.  With all the financial/job upheaval in our household over the past few months, I am so, so thankful I don't have to worry about losing health coverage on top of everything else.

Honestly, the private health care system in the US is the number one reason that I won't ever seriously consider moving back.  With all the financial/job upheaval in our household over the past few months, I am so, so thankful I don't have to worry about losing health coverage on top of everything else.

Ditto.  And the cost, especially for a family of 5.

Plus the worry of being in debted forever because of co-pays for illnesses which are relatively routine.  A relative of mine also has what's considered very good insurance and his share to pay after triple-bypass and subsequent hospitalisation and care was in the tens of thousands.

Honestly, the private health care system in the US is the number one reason that I won't ever seriously consider moving back.  With all the financial/job upheaval in our household over the past few months, I am so, so thankful I don't have to worry about losing health coverage on top of everything else.

As much as I'd love, one day, to move to the US with DW, this is probably the biggest thing that would worry me.
I've never needed much health care - prior to last Jan I'd not been to the doctor's for about 20 years and only needed casualty at hospital a couple of times. But I'll need the doctor more as I get older and the irony of leaving the UK just when I need the health care is not lost on me.

I've just seen 'Sicko' for the first time...yeah, I know I left it late...but I have never been so glad that this is where I live.


Vicky

I myself didn't see SiCKO until I had already moved to the UK. Obviously, working with US health insurance, I was all too aware of how horrible it is and can be. I know through what family members have gone through, how horrible a position it can put some people in. I know my aunt got sent a Debt collection bill for over $100,000 from something that happened over 15 years ago and she nearly died. She was a single parent and didn't make a lot of money, so that letter came back to haunt her because at the time she was in no position to pay (which is a lot of people's positions in the US.)
She had to file bankruptcy, obviously.
My grandmother recently was in the hospital for congestive heart failure acting up and filling up with fluid, and then at the hospital she got pneumonia and an infection in her blood... after four days, Medicare didn't want to pay for her to be in the hospital anymore, and she didn't have the money to stay... so she was discharged. My mother and aunts were livid and stressed to tears worrying about how they were going to keep her well at home.
My aunt died from cervical cancer as a result of having gone to the ER (must have just been a really bad hospital, as I don't know why no one did a full check, but I suppose it appeared so insignificant from the outside) so many times for months and months complaining of constantly not feeling well and vomiting, etcetera. They kept sending her home saying she had the flu. No one thought to check further about the cause, and she was unable to afford the the ER and doctor bills, so she asked my second cousin, whom is a midwife, to see what she could check out from a woman's health point of view. She found a tumor the size of her fist  near her cervix. She passed away two months later after a very brief battle with it, but in the end didn't go through all the chemotherapy as she felt it was a lost cause...

Etcetera.
So, to make a long story short, despite me knowing it (and I didn't even get into stories of patients who had no insurance and even those that did and what they had to pay prior to their treatments) within my life with family and from an employment point of view, watching SiCKO just left me with heartache because here I have this wonderful NHS and my family are still battling with insurance at home, it made me break into a sob. Here I can see the doctor if I need to without putting it off because I can't afford it like I used to do in the US. I have been insured and uninsured, both times didn't guarantee me being able to afford anything. I often put things off. I had chickenpox as an adult and had one ER visit, with insurance, but that took such a hefty bite out of my pocket even with insurance that when my doctor urged me to go a second time (due to her concern of me showing symptoms of brain swelling), I just couldn't and hoped for the best instead or if it really became apparent only then would I go. Stupid, I know, but people really weigh those sort of things out in their minds. Luckily, my brain was all right and it was just my body trying to break that week long very high fever, but eeegads.

My husband knew of what it was like, but watching it and seeing how much it hit home for me made him very frustrated for my family in the States.

Good post Suregena, I can't even imagine what it's like, I saw about 10 mins of Sicko the other week before going to the football, we have it recorded to watch at some point.
It's completely baffling how a civilised, democratic country can have such a health system and then be so against socialised health care and the term even bandied about to attack political parties - how dare they want social health care, it's just utterly astounding.
Just watching the election debates and nobody seems to want to go near a fairer, more humane system.

I had a discission with my BiL in the States, and this after he was saying how he'd received a bill for a couple of hundred dollars after a visit to casualty evenn though he had, by his admission, pretty decent insurance, after all this and him agreeing that the Uk system seemed better he then sais something along the lines of "but I wouldn't want it in the US", and arguments about why should he pay for someone elses health! They just don't get it!

My take on the NHS is the same as my take on American healthcare really. I HATED the idea of having the NHS before I moved here. Now, my opinion has slightly changed.

My Grandma was in a hospital here(Conquest hospital, in Hastings) for 6 weeks..she had horrible treatment. IVs went dry, bandages not changed, they couldnt get her in to an MRI for 2 weeks, and in the end, they just couldn't figure out what was wrong. My Grandpa checked her out of the hospital, and flew her home, where she went straight to the ER after landing. Within 2 days they had a diagnosis, and within a few days had a surgery with a specialist performed. All was then well.

My husband and I flew to London the day after our wedding, because we were going to Kefalonia for our honeymoon. The night we landed he had horrible cramps in his side, so much so he couldn't even stand properly. We decided to go to the hospital(Queen Marys..it was about 10pm) and have it checked since we were leaving the next morning. He was taken into a room, given Ibuprofen, and then given a cup to take to a bathroom and urinate in. He then had to carry it out through the hallways and hand it over the front desk where a nurse was. Then about an hour later, he was taken back to be seen by a doctor who said he was showing all the signs of appendicitis, except for vomiting and running a fever. So her advice? Go home, and if you start throwing up within the next two days, go to a hospital. Thats it.

Luckily, he turned out to be fine and I think he had really just pulled a muscle, but I was just really shocked because when my sister was having the same pains in America, she was given an ultrasound in the ER to figure out what was wrong(kidney stones)..she wasnt told to just go home and see if it gets worse. Her co-pay for that hospital visit including ultrasound was $50.

That same sister recently gave birth nearly 10 weeks early. She spent 2 weeks prior to that in the ICU with  pre eclampsia, and then her daughter spent 5 weeks in the NICU. Her total hospital bill was over $200,000! However with insurance, it ended up being $3000 something total. So with good insurance in America, you can have great treatment, without completely going bankrupt.

However, a few of my friends from university have moved to Los Angeles. Two of them are pregnant and have the same insurance me and my sister had in America. However...whenever they need to go to the ER, they wait for hours, and are basically just fobbed off. When my friends and family give birth in Indiana, they all have private rooms for labor, and private rooms for after the birth, with a chair that turns into the bed so the husband can sleep with them over night, and just generally, nice rooms plasma TVs and such. But according to my friends in LA...they will have a shared maternity ward, and can have up to 6 women in the same room as them, and their husbands are not allowed to stay with them over night because of it being a shared room. Their stories are very similar to my UK friends who have given birth here.

That all being said, I do miss my local hospital in America. It was nice and clean, never busy, even when you went to the ER you had a private room in the ER and I was never sent home without knowing what was wrong, and my insurance covered it so it really wasnt a big expense.

I will be getting private insurance here because it is offered with DH company. However, I looked over the plans the other day and have noticed a lot of it still means you need to seek NHS care for a lot of things. So, private insurance isn't really perfect here, either.

So long story short...UK healthcare and American healthcare are really not that different! You still pay for it here, just through taxes. You can either have wonderful care here, or horrible care here. It really just depends on what area you are in. Same as America. The only big difference is you generally won't get the luxuries you get in America. But then again, you're not paying for those luxuries, either, and who really needs to pay double just so they get a big private room with a plasma flat screen tv?

I read quite a bit about the NHS from this site before I moved to the UK, and was relieved to hear the good things people said. However, having just suffered through a very painful health condition (not permenant, thank God!), I have to say I am not that impressed. 

My situation: I had been suffering with lower back pain for about 3 months (Aug. - Oct.). I know that back pain is tricky to diagnose, but the doctors got it really wrong in my case (I even saw two!). They thought it was muscular (which normally heals in 4 - 6 weeks - I swear they weren't listening to me!!) and sent me to physiotherapy. The physio gave me a handout with a few stretches and told me to come back in 3 weeks. So very helpful seeing as I had been doing those exact same stretches for two months. However, she wrote down an additional exercise - the pilates plank. I did it the next day, got up and literally couldn't walk. It resulted in a bulging disc - severe nerve pain down the whole of back of my right leg (and foot) and almost total loss of feeling below the knee.

The GP referred me to a specialist and prescribed some pain medication. I had an allergic reaction to the medicine and became very, very ill. My husband had to take me to the emergency room. I had told the doctor that very day that I was allergic to codine, yet he prescribed medication in the codine family!!

I finally saw a specialist a month later. He confirmed that the physio never should have told me to do the pilates plank. He did actually really listen to what I had to say. He also submitted a request for an MRI scan. This was in early December and I finally have my appointment next Thursday (29th January), almost three months after the original incident.

I was out of work for seven weeks and have gone back part time now. This exact same thing happened to my Mom about 10 years ago - even then she had an MRI scan within a week and they also gave her steroids, which really helped with pain and inflammation. She was only out of work for two - three weeks. I asked for steroids here, but they said it's not common medical practice in the UK and they only use it in extreme situations. 

I have never been in so much pain or been so scared in my life - it was really hard having this kind of thing happen so far away from family and dealing with a foreign healthcare system. I don't really feel like they've done anything but sign sick notes. I have gotten much better now, but am still glad to have the scan so at least they can confirm the diagnosis.

I think the facilities are nicer and more modern in the US (at least in my experience). You do get the care here, but you have to wait a long time. Also, everyone keeps saying it's free, but we pay 11 -12% of our annual salaries to National Insurance. The money has to come from somewhere! I personally don't think it's used efficiently enough, but everyone has their own opinion. I certainly would have considered the healthcare issue more before I moved - I just never expected something like this to happen. I have also been lucky in that I have had great healthcare experiences in the states. It seems to be hit or miss in both places.   

The NHS saved my life but almost killed my friend (they misdiagnosed her gall bladder problem to the point she has permanent liver damage).

Bottom line, IMO, the US system is fine if you can afford it, the NHS is better in terms of coverage for all (setting aside post code lottery). But both make serious mistakes in terms of care.

Let's hope Obama can make some changes that honestly make a difference.

I think the facilities are nicer and more modern in the US (at least in my experience). You do get the care here, but you have to wait a long time. Also, everyone keeps saying it's free, but we pay 11 -12% of our annual salaries to National Insurance. The money has to come from somewhere! I personally don't think it's used efficiently enough, but everyone has their own opinion. I certainly would have considered the healthcare issue more before I moved - I just never expected something like this to happen. I have also been lucky in that I have had great healthcare experiences in the states. It seems to be hit or miss in both places.��  �� 

NI does not fund the NHS, only part of it goes to that.
And the basis is that, regardless of what you earn, your employment etc, everyone gets the same entitlement.
For example - I was with DW in the US when she went to check on what prescriptions she could refill. As she no longer had health insurance 1 item would have cost over $200.....she has got that item here, here that 1 prescription item costs £7!
She also informs me that she's had blood tests taken more frequently than would ever happen in the US because you'd get billed for every one over there.
I'm currently going through the NHS process because I'm getting pain in my knee, something that under the US system I'd be thinking twice about getting looked at - here I've no qualms and I have no complaints about the service so far.

The US system seems to work very well if you have decent insurance through your employer, but it seems for everyone else (and that is some 40 MILLION) then it really does suck!

I have never been in so much pain or been so scared in my life - it was really hard having this kind of thing happen so far away from family and dealing with a foreign healthcare system. I don't really feel like they've done anything but sign sick notes. I have gotten much better now, but am still glad to have the scan so at least they can confirm the diagnosis. 

This rings true with me.  I have been in pretty severe pain and inflammation/swelling in my epigastric-rib cage area for almost 6 months, like someone kicking you in the stomach 20 times a day. I was all alone and terrified in the beginning. I'd never been in pain like that and I felt like here I was 4000 miles from my family, a medical system that I don't understand,and why was no one helping me?   I was out of work for a month and then I said screw it, I'm not going to not go to work, especially since I'm on a WP and well how does that look? 

I've had ultrasounds and bloodwork and basically doctors telling me its musco-skeletal and it will go away. It hasn't.

When I was home at Christmas, my mom sent me to her doctor, because she was so worried about me.  I saw him and he wanted to run all kinds of bloodwork and CT scans and MRIs, etc. I told him that I didn't have health insurance, so we only did the bloodwork. (Darn it, should have gotten travel insurance!)  Cost me out of pocket $350 for bloodwork. (Because her doctor. treats 4 generations of our family, he only charged me $20 to see him!) I would shudder to think was a CT scan would have cost.  I've been in situations in the states without insurance and thank god nothing was wrong with me at the time, but it wouldn't have been good to not have insurance, if a simple bit of bloodwork was $350! But the doctor said my blood was fine and he didn't know what to do without a good look at my internal organs.

So, giving up hope on someone trying to fix me, I found a new GP 3 weeks ago. Explained my situation.  He first gave me some pills to try and I came by the next week. It didn't work. Went back the next week and he gave me some more. Didn't work. Came back yesterday, and he has referred me to the hospital urgently! He thinks something is seriously up with me since none of the medication has worked and he's looked at the entire case history and meds and bloodwork and everything and he's just stumped as to what is wrong. Will probably be a few more months until I can see a specialist, but I love this new GP! (Not to mention he is cute!!!) He told me to call him if I get worse and to come back in a month if I haven't been to the hospital yet and he'll push it along faster.  I felt like I was actually a person and not a doormat.  I'm keeping him! 

So I'm still mixed on NHS...lets see if I can get anywhere with this referral without being in pain constantly and what the outcomes will be!