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Topic: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?  (Read 4354 times)

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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2008, 08:58:28 AM »
JuniorMint, you are totally missing the point. These days currencies, and yes even one as big as the Pound Sterling, are totally at the whim of the speculators. And as I said before the UK Government's huge borrowing need means that the speculators fear that the UK economy is in real trouble, and thus, they think, it is guaranteed to fall further. So they speculate even more!

So don't spout this rubbish about losing control of our currency. We have already lost control .... as have all the other Governments around the world. The important thing now is to be part of a strong currency block, and unless and until the Pound joins the Eurozone the Pound will continue to have a real struggle.

Also appreciate that the Pound joining the Euro makes the Euro a stronger currency, and increasingly the world's reserve currency, in preference to the USD.

So the only questions are when, and at what rate does the Pound join the Euro. Personally I don't want to wait until the exchange rate reaches £1 < €1 , but that is bound to happen at some point in the future, unless the Pound has joined before that.
John


Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2008, 09:19:42 AM »
And as I said before the UK Government's huge borrowing need means that the speculators fear that the UK economy is in real trouble, and thus, they think, it is guaranteed to fall further. So they speculate even more!

Like Willem Buiter says, as I quoted before:

Quote
It is not much of an exaggeration to describe the UK as a hedge fund, a highly leveraged entity, borrowing shorter than it lends and invests. It has a lot of short-maturity foreign-currency-denominated foreign liabilities and quite a lot of illiquid, non-sterling denominated foreign assets.

PS I see the pound is 1.1020 to the euro today. A new record low. Like all the other record lows we've had this week.

Quote
Personally I don't want to wait until the exchange rate reaches £1 < €1

A few minutes ago, I was going to jokingly say "You'd better hope they join before Christmas, then" but now I'm not so sure it's a joke; it's gone down 2 eurocents in as many days. Personally I reckon that if things get that bad then Gordon Brown will be able to just go on the telly and say we're going in, end of.

The crisis is that serious. Blethering about "sovereignty" misses the point.

[EDIT]

Quote
"It's looking like it's going to hit parity in the first quarter of next year," said Mark Deans, a dealer at Moneycorp in London.

The first quarter of 2009 starts in 18 days.

Quote
the run on sterling looked set to take the UK to unprecedented parity with the euro within weeks.


« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 09:57:57 AM by contrex »


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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2008, 10:05:15 AM »
Juniormint, the tome and language of your post reminds me of a UKIP rant.

Or a lunatic on a street corner.  JM, is there any topic on which you don't hold a contrary view supported by gross hyperbole?  Thus far I've seen:

- "The European Union - the New Soviet Union"
- "[Abraham] Lincoln was a tyrant and butcher comparable to Saddam Hussein."
- "I really do hope the dollar collapses and [the United States] goes bankrupt. I know it is harsh! But this is the only way the American people will wake up and realize that our government needs to be overthrown...."

And that's only from the last 7 days.

Occasionally I agree with the idea behind some of your posts, but when you advocate the overthrow of the American government or compare Lincoln to Saddam Hussein I just think, "Oh, he's a nutter."

Then again, if you just want to get a rise out of people by saying outrageous things, you're doing a good job.

Carl
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 10:07:29 AM by camoscato »


Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2008, 10:10:09 AM »
[mod note]

....and it's Christmas.  Everybody fasten their seatbelts, the annual run-up-to-Christmas-UKY-meltdown has begun.

Be nice, stay calm, no personal attacks, take a breather, go clean your kitchen,  yada-yada-yada. 

Every year it happens, every year we get through it.

But know that mods are watching and are in a take no prisoners kind of mood.



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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2008, 10:20:10 AM »
[mod note]

....and it's Christmas.  Everybody fasten their seatbelts, the annual run-up-to-Christmas-UKY-meltdown has begun.

Be nice, stay calm, no personal attacks, take a breather, go clean your kitchen,  yada-yada-yada. 

Every year it happens, every year we get through it.

But know that mods are watching and are in a take no prisoners kind of mood.



People do get kind of strange this time of year, don't they?  I think it must be holiday-meltdown disorder or something....


Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2008, 10:23:25 AM »
People do get kind of strange this time of year, don't they?  I think it must be holiday-meltdown disorder or something....

Or maybe the sherry:mince pies ratio needs adjusting?

(Emilio Lustau Gran Reserva is half price in Sainsbury's at the moment, and some bugger keeps buying them all at Clifton Down before I get there! The wine section guy told me a man bought 4 bottles then came back and bought 6 more)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 10:43:36 AM by contrex »


Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2008, 10:37:50 AM »
Trawling back through the wisdom of Juniormint, as expressed in his posts, I see that he does see some advantages in Britain being in the EU/EEA:

Quote from: Juniormint
Can I use the E.U. queue (the express queue as I call it hehe)

Quote from: Juniormint
was your husband born in Northern Ireland? If so, he can get an Irish passport and you can apply for an EEA Family Permit to join him in the U.K. It's free and there's no need to show finances or stuff like that.

Quote from: juniormint
have a Residence Card in my passport because my wife is an EEA national exercising treaty rights in the U.K.

Can I re-enter the U.K. on it?

Quote from: juniormint
Personally, I'll jump at the chance of British citizenship. If you have American citizenship, and British (E.U.) citizenship. The world is your oyster I think. Unfortunately, I have to wait awhile because I'm here on EEA rules.

Quote from: juniormint
Congrats to you! The EEA route is brilliantly easy isn't it?

Although I see some contradictions:

Quote from: juniormint
Personally, I'd never forsake this country

(Written, apparently, in Norfolk, but seemingly meaning the USA) vs.

Quote from: juniormint
I'll jump at the chance of British citizenship.

Sherry, mince pies, meds... scary mixture...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 10:41:37 AM by contrex »


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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2008, 11:20:43 AM »
What is your point, Contrex?  Switzerland is not in the EEA but benefits from the same free movement legislation.  Yet they are of the most staunchly independent countries in the world and will not be beholden to anyone.  This country ought to take a page out of Switzerland's notes.  I used to like the idea of the E.U., but this whole Irish second vote thing comes across to me as arm twisting, and it's given me second thoughts.

The U.S. government has become a criminal organization, Camascato.  Tell me one good reason why it is crazy to say they are unfit to govern us?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 11:23:54 AM by JuniorMint »
Democrats and Republicans - fiddling while Rome burns.


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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2008, 11:44:55 AM »
Switzerland is also one of the richest nations on the planet - built on secrecy and corruption, theft and illegal hording, and a zero tax for the mega rich.  A totally different economy, not even vaguely comparable to that of the UK.

I am quite a Eurosceptic, but there is no way that those who share my views will ever win the argument when the loudest voices are those like you. 



Vicky


Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2008, 12:02:26 PM »
What is your point, Contrex?  Switzerland is not in the EEA but benefits from the same free movement legislation. 

Switzerland took part in negotiating the European Economic Area agreement with the European Union. It signed the agreement on 2 May 1992, and submitted an application for accession to the EU on 20 May 1992. However, a Swiss referendum held on 6 December 1992 rejected EEA membership. As a consequence, the Swiss government decided to suspend negotiations for EU accession until further notice.Its application remains open.

In 1994, Switzerland and the EU started negotiations about a special relationship outside the EEA or full membership framework. Switzerland wanted to safeguard the economic integration with the EU that the EEA treaty would have permitted, while purging the relationship of the points of contention that had led to the people rejecting the referendum. Swiss politicians stressed the bilateral nature of these negotiations, where negotiations were conducted between two equal partners and not between 16 or 28, as is the case for EU treaty negotiations.

These negotiations resulted in a total of ten treaties, negotiated in two phases, the sum of which makes a large share of EU law applicable to Switzerland.

From the perspective of the EU, the treaties largely contain the same content as the EEA treaties, making Switzerland a virtual member of the EEA or even the EU. Most EU law applies universally throughout the EU, the EEA and Switzerland, providing most of the benefits of the free movement of people, goods, services and capital that full member states enjoy. Switzerland pays into the EU budget and extended the bilateral treaties to the new EU member states, just like full members did, yet people had to decide upon this in a referendum.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 12:04:51 PM by contrex »


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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2008, 01:19:10 PM »
Hiya

Getting back to the original topic, here's an article from MSN Money

http://money.uk.msn.com/investing/articles/john-stepek/article.aspx?cp-documentid=11823803

makes for insteresting reading as to 'why' things happen to make joining or not joining the Euro a possibility. 

It's all complex stuff, on the 'world' stage the US dollar is used, it's what drives other economies and their associated currencies then keep up i.e Yen, Chinese (forgot the name!) Pound, Euro etc etc. Yes the Pound has historically been strong, but now it's weak, and the Euro is taking over. The recession in the UK is looking more and more likely to be deep reaching and if that does indeed happen, the 'world' trading climate will favour the Euro and other currencies. The hope is that the UK govt. can stave that off so that Sterling 'bounces' back as it were to how it was over the last few years to instill that confidence again.

So those who want to keep a deep root in 'we must have the sterling' and 'dont join the euro becuase you'll have a different flag etc' do have a 'point' - but that point will quickly disappear on the World stage if the pound does lose more value.

Very difficult indeed, and as the article I posted up says, theres just so much speculation that who knows what'll happen.

I'm just keeping my head down, aiming to increase my income as much as possible, pay my dues/taxes, and create enough of a basis for my wife/kids/family as they come along. If thats in Pounds, Euro's Dollars or Zings or flujjers, I'm aiming the same!

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!


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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2008, 01:40:55 PM »
The U.S. government has become a criminal organization, Camascato.  Tell me one good reason why it is crazy to say they are unfit to govern us?

I believe there are individuals working in the US government who have done criminal things, and I believe the solution to that is to proscecute them under existing US and international law, not to wish for the bankruptcy and overthrow of the entire US government as a way to combat corruption.

It is not the individual ideas you throw out there that sound crazy; it's the sum total of "Lincoln = Saddam Hussein" plus "Overthrow the Corrupt US Government" plus "Protect The UK from EU Takover" plus "Militarize the Mexican Border" that sounds crazy.

Carl


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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2008, 06:26:11 PM »
No - you do realise how much work will be needed to implement it - working in IT it would be almost on a par with the Y2K stuff, I might decide to go contracting if we do decide to join though!

I is already done in Germany, France, Netherlands ......etc
Why not in UK ...it may boost IT jobs .. One thing, you may have experience in Y2K stuff, But European programmer can better handle this conversion.   ;D

I did move to NL last summer .now I did realize the Uk is really so cheap. With Sterling's decline to a value of less than a euro, Spain will look more expensive than UK and Dinner for £50 is not so bad in London.

Pound slips below euro on Britain's high streets
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/dec/14/euro-economic-policy-currencies-europe
« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 06:59:56 PM by casawi »


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Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2008, 06:33:19 PM »
Personally I don't want to wait until the exchange rate reaches £1 < €1 , but that is bound to happen at some point in the future, unless the Pound has joined before that.


You dont have to wait ..it is already here ..

Pound slips below euro on Britain's high streets
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/dec/14/euro-economic-policy-currencies-europe


Re: will UK join the Euro in the new year ?
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2008, 06:36:26 PM »

You dont have to wait ..it is already here ..

Pound slips below euro on Britain's high streets
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/dec/14/euro-economic-policy-currencies-europe

Tourist rate, yes, at high street changers... bank rate in a while maybe.


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