What should I write on my fiance visa application?

I'm American and my boyfriend is English. I just tried to apply for a fiance visa, but I was declined for a few reasons. The main reason was that we didn't have notification of marriage, and I'm still unsure what that actually is, so could someone tell me what that is and how to document it? (We aren't even engaged yet, although that's just a technicality, and we were looking forward to having the 6 months to figure all of the ceremony and dates and stuff out, but I guess we could do it now if we have to.) The other thing was that I didn't put a specific date on the application for when I would be LEAVING the UK. But I wasn't planning to leave, I was planning to switch to a marriage visa after we got married and then stay in the country. The only reason we even wanted to bother with the fiance visa was so we could live together for a while before we got married. What should I say about that in my application? Can I include some kind of letter with the application to tell them this extra information? And is there anything else that I should include besides the standard application and my bank letter? That's all I included last time, and I feel like I'm seeing things from other people saying they included letters from their fiances' accounts and so on, and I didn't even think of that, nor was it mentioned at all in my declination letter. Do I have to have another biometrics appointment, even though I had one a month ago? Is it even POSSIBLE for me to reapply this soon?

Finally, is it possible to get married in the UK or the US WITHOUT a fiance visa? And then just apply straight to the marriage visa? Or do you have to have a fiance visa in order to legally marry? I read in another topic that the stamp I'd get at immigration is good for a 6 month visit, so what is the actual point of the fiance visa?

I really wish I'd found this forum before I sent my application in

You can marry in the US with out a visa then apply for a Spousal visa afterwards.  I know when i plans got rather muttled we though of marring in the US then after we could go to the UK we would have our foe wedding for my husbands side of the family. And yes every application you make you have to get biometrics done.

Finally, is it possible to get married in the UK or the US WITHOUT a fiance visa? And then just apply straight to the marriage visa? Or do you have to have a fiance visa in order to legally marry? I read in another topic that the stamp I'd get at immigration is good for a 6 month visit, so what is the actual point of the fiance visa?

In order to marry in the UK and then settle there to live afterwards, you have to get the fiance visa and then apply for the spousal visa in-country. If you just arrived in the UK as a visitor, you cannot get married. There is a 'visit for marriage' visa in order to get married as a visitor in the UK, but that is supposed to be for people who are not planning to live in the UK after the marriage (i.e. two US citizens could get a visit for marriage visa, get married in the UK and then return to live in their home in the US).

However, as mrslit has said, the US doesn't have this stipulation, so your boyfriend/fiance can fly to the US as a visitor and you can get married there with no visa problems. Then once you are married, you can just apply for the spousal visa. Doing it this way is cheaper for visa costs because you only have to pay £515 for the spousal visa instead of £1030 for the fiance visa and the spousal visa, and you would be able to work in the UK right away if you entered on the spousal visa.

First off, this one is a little strange sounding.  Could you post, verbatum the entire text of the reject letter.  If you aren't comfortable putting it out in the open like this, if you could send it to me or Garry in a personal message and we will be sure to keep it in confidence.

The main reason was that we didn't have notification of marriage, and I'm still unsure what that actually is, so could someone tell me what that is and how to document it? (We aren't even engaged yet, although that's just a technicality, and we were looking forward to having the 6 months to figure all of the ceremony and dates and stuff out, but I guess we could do it now if we have to.)

Well, I am afraid this is most likely part of it.  A fiancée visa is not a visa to come over and "just hang out".  It is a visa to come over to the UK with specific plans to marry.  Because you didn't make these plans evident, they most likely denied you the visa.  Originally, simply stating "We plan to get married on the 15th February 2008" would have likely been sufficient to show that you had made plans.  Now though, you are likely to need to show that you have made more formal plans, like sent out wedding invitations and the like.  When you respond considering this infromation, I am sure there are other advice of what people have done in the past in this vein.

The other thing was that I didn't put a specific date on the application for when I would be LEAVING the UK. But I wasn't planning to leave, I was planning to switch to a marriage visa after we got married and then stay in the country.

This is the confusing bit and without the full text of the refusal it would be hard to say.

The only reason we even wanted to bother with the fiance visa was so we could live together for a while before we got married. What should I say about that in my application? Can I include some kind of letter with the application to tell them this extra information? And is there anything else that I should include besides the standard application and my bank letter?

Again, this is the problem, the Fiancé(e) Visa is to go to the UK to get married and then settle, not to live together before a potential marriage.  If you are just visiting, to spend a limited amount of time together, then it is a Visitor's Visa, to which you would need to leave the UK and re-apply for a Fiancé(e) Visa.

Finally, is it possible to get married in the UK or the US WITHOUT a fiance visa? And then just apply straight to the marriage visa? Or do you have to have a fiance visa in order to legally marry? I read in another topic that the stamp I'd get at immigration is good for a 6 month visit, so what is the actual point of the fiance visa?

Generally you cannot marry in the UK on any other visa then a fiancé(e) visa (or marriage visit visa).  If you had another type of visa, like a work visa, you could apply for a Certificate of Approval which would allow you to marry, but this cannot be obtained by people on visitor visas.  (For completeness, there are some exceptions to the rules, but they are not likely to apply in your case)

A few other questions, when did you two meet?  How many times have you met?  Did you send any proof that the two of your physically met before?  Some of this is likely to have been considered in your application.

If you still decide to go the fiance visa route, I don't think you need to go so far as sending out invitations.  But, you should have your husband-to-be contact the local registry office and reserve a date.  That is what we did.  We did it in December for a June wedding because we wanted to make sure we got the date we wanted.  I no longer remember how much time you have after that to finalise things with the RO, but that part isn't so important for the visa.

The RO should give him something in writing stating the date you have reserved, and that should be enough for the visa to show that you DO have a wedding planned within the six months for which the visa is good.

When you say that about needing a date to LEAVE the UK, makes me wonder if you didn't fill out the Marriage for Visit visa by mistake - I believe they're both good for six months.  As Kitsonk mentioned, it may be helpful if you provide the refusal language - gives them a better idea of what actually happened.

If your husband-to-be is planning a trip the US anyway, as others have said, it might be better to just get married in the US and then apply for your spousal visa to the UK.  There are lots of threads on here about doing that which may be of help if you decide to go that route, but if you don't find the info you need after doing a search, ask away!

Maybe she accidentailly applied for the marriage visit visa?  They would want to know when she was leaving with that.

We only put tentative wedding plans. Because my fiance has been married before, the vicar wouldn't agree to marry us unless we attended counseling first (and hasn't THAT been a little ray of sunshine!). But we gave that explanation and put the date we hoped to be married.

You mentioned "accounts" -- we documented the bejesus out of our savings!

Wow, a lot of input! Thanks everyone!

Okay, after reading all of this I figured out my problem. I DID accidentally apply for the Visit for Marriage visa, and I have no idea how I did that but I did. I applied through visa4uk.fco.gov.uk and I guess I mixed up the options, I don't know. This makes everything MUCH more clear now, though (including that it was so much cheaper than I thought it was supposed to be). And now I'm thinking the Fiance visa was the wrong idea. I think our best option would definitely be to live together in England on a Visitor's Visa for 6 months, get married back in the US, and then apply for the spousal visa to go there. I assume I have to apply from the US for the spousal visa?

So with the Visitor's Visa, that's just the stamp that I get in immigration, correct? And I could just have a round-trip plane ticket for up to 6 months, and that would be enough to show that I wasn't lying my way through or anything? If that's the case, I don't need the fiance visa at all, because really we just wanted to live together for a while. (But don't worry, we were planning to get married within the 6 months. We just hadn't planned it yet, and we were probably going to just have a minor civil ceremony and then have a larger ceremony for our friends and family once we hit the mark where one of us had a permanent visa. We both wanted a real celebration but we don't have a lot of money, so we wanted time to save but still be together.)

A few other questions, when did you two meet?  How many times have you met?  Did you send any proof that the two of your physically met before?  Some of this is likely to have been considered in your application.

We met a year and a half ago when we worked at a summer camp together, although the proof of that would probably be the work visa on HIS passport, which I didn't send. And last year I did study abroad in Italy, so I visited him 4 separate times, all of which were stamped on my passport and indicated on my application. And then he came here again in the summer, but again, that would be his passport. So no, there wasn't any real proof other than the stamps on my passport saying I'd flown into England. What kind of proof can I send, if I do change my mind and decide to go for the fiance visa? I feel like the only proof we really have would be pay stubs from the camp we worked at together, which I don't even know if I have anymore, and the visas on our passports.

And for those of you who were asking about the specific language of the letter:

You have stated in your application that you have not arranged a date for marriage as you are waiting until you have been issued with entry clearance as a visitor for marriage. However, it is a requirement under this part of the Immigration Rules that arrangements have been made for either the notification of the ceremony or for the ceremony to be taking place during the period for which leave is granted. As you have not provided any evidence of this or of your relationship with your fiance I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of paragraph 56D (ii) and (iii).

Furthermore, you have provided no evidence of your intentions after marriage. You have stated that you are a student but theres is no evidence of when your studies will finish or how they will be affected by taking 6 months absence. I have carefully considered your reasons for wishing to go to the UK, your overall circumstances, including your current financial status and ties to your home country and based on these considerations, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of paragraph 41 (i) and (ii).

I therefore refuse your application.

I don't know why they put the part about being a student, because I wrote on my application that I graduated December 2008. It was probably just confusing because when I filled out the application I WAS still a student, and I put that as my primary occupation, but now I've graduated and I did indicate that, but whatever. Now if I fill out a new one I am not a student anymore anyway.

Wow, a lot of input! Thanks everyone!

Okay, after reading all of this I figured out my problem. I DID accidentally apply for the Visit for Marriage visa, and I have no idea how I did that but I did. I applied through visa4uk.fco.gov.uk and I guess I mixed up the options, I don't know. This makes everything MUCH more clear now, though (including that it was so much cheaper than I thought it was supposed to be). And now I'm thinking the Fiance visa was the wrong idea. I think our best option would definitely be to live together in England on a Visitor's Visa for 6 months, get married back in the US, and then apply for the spousal visa to go there. I assume I have to apply from the US for the spousal visa?

If you plan on doing that and applying for a spousal visa from America, keep in mind that you have to stay in the US that whole time for the application. If you want to be together with your husband in England after the wedding and he doesn't have a job etc here in the states, you really ought to get a fiancee visa for the UK and then when you're there after the wedding you can apply for further leave to remain whilst in the UK and not have to come back to the states.

OK, yes, the refusal does make a lot more sense when you say that you applied for the marriage for visit visa in error...

Keep in mind, if you decide to enter the UK as a visitor, it is totally up to the IO whether they let you enter, and whether they let you enter for the entire 6 months.  If you plan to stay for 6 months, I think you're going to need more than just a return ticket.  You'll need to be prepared to show that you have ties to the US.  Really, what you are talking about doing is not actually visiting.  It's always the best option to be honest with the IO, and when you tell them what you are intending to do, they will say you're not a visitor. I personally think it's very difficult to prove to an IO that you are intending to 'just' visit for 6 months - you need proof of funds and proof of ties to the US (like a job to go back to that allows you to take 6 months off, or mortgage papers or tenancy agreement).  That's my opinion anyway.

I know it gets awfully expensive traveling back and forth, but you'd probably both be better off with you making a shorter than 6 month visit to the UK and him making a short visit to the US (possibly to get married!).

She could always apply for entry clearance as a visitor, rather than deal with the IO on arrival...seems like that would be a bit risky.

They would refuse me entrance? How long would be safe? He's coming here for 3 weeks in January, but then he has to go back for his job. I don't have a job right now, I just graduated so I'm staying with my mom. I don't think I do have provable "ties" to the US, honestly. The important thing is that we both really want to live together first, to get settled with each other before getting married. A test to make sure that getting married really is the good idea we think it is. I mean, we could get married now and apply for the spousal visa, but we don't want to before we've lived together. But if it comes down to that we could do it. Funds aren't a problem, at least on my end, but paying for numerous flights back and forth would be impossible if we also wanted enough in savings to apply for the visa.

What's entry clearance as a visitor, historyenne?

Maybe you should look at another visa route (student, etc..) to allow you to stay in the UK for a longer period.

IMO (and in my experience), visiting for extended periods of time is not the same as living together and will not really give you a true idea of what it is to live with another person. 

Good luck with whatever choice you make.

What's entry clearance as a visitor, historyenne?

Basically, it's a visa, but you would apply for it before you left, and you would have to pay for it (about $100).  Since the US and the UK have a visa waiver agreement, you as an American can (in theory) just hop on a plane, chat with an IO on arrival, have your passport stamped and go on your merry way.  However, the IOs have the right to refuse you entry, and if they think you are not really a visitor (you are planning to overstay, or you have spent too much time in the UK in the space of a year, etc) they will put you right back on the plane.  This has happened to people on this forum.  If there's a good chance you would be refused entry (like lack of demonstrable ties to the US) then it's in your best interest to apply for entry clearance before you leave.  Then you would be granted a 6-month general visitor visa, and the IO would know that you have already satisfied an Entry Clearance Officer about your intentions.  I am not an expert, but I think in your circumstances it would be a good idea to have a visitor visa.  I went to visit my fiance (now my husband) for a weekend in September, and even though I had my ticket back to the US, as soon as I said "fiance" ("boyfriend" is another red-flag word) they questioned me really closely about my intentions, when was I getting married, where, did I have a date set, where would we be living, did I know I needed a visa and had to apply for it from the US, etc.  And that was just for a weekend visit, so we didn't get into finances at all!  Here's some information about visas from Worldbridge https://www.visainfoservices.com/Pages/Content.aspx?Tag=VisaFormsAndPolicies_PAGE.

Good luck!

Maybe you should look at another visa route (student, etc..) to allow you to stay in the UK for a longer period.

I think I have honestly looked into every visa route possible. The only other option besides marriage or the fiance visa is the work visa, but I don't have any job prospects that would fulfill the new points system requirements (mostly in the income range). By the way, does anyone know if being a teacher's assistant qualifies for the shortlist, or do you have to be a full teacher? I might be able to find a job doing that, since I have experience with kids. And my boyfriend's job was willing to hire me but only at minimum wage, which wouldn't be a high enough income to qualify for the visa. I can't afford to go back to school, nor do I want to.

The visitor visa sounds great, historyenne. I know what you mean, every time I was at immigration last year visiting my boyfriend they did question me about how long I would stay until they saw my student visa for Italy. I didn't realize until now why that was. I think it's definitely worth applying for the visitor visa. I can easily do that when my boyfriend visits me in January, so we can work on it together.