Public funds

Sorry, another question about public funds.  We've (well, my UKC husband) have applied for Jobseeker's, child tax benefit, child tax credit, housing benefit, and council tax credit.  He's unemployed and has been since we got to England in November (we were previously living in America for several years).  We have one child together.  They weren't very clear about how much we would be getting in benefits, so I checked the calculator on entitledto.co.uk, and this is what I got.  I plugged in £13,000 gross as the yearly salary as a sort of worst-case scenario for when my husband does get a job.  Do these numbers seem accurate for that?  It just seems like SO much money to just give away.  (These are small screen caps of the final screens of entitledto.co.uk that show you how much you're entitled to receive.)

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This equals out to over £400/month in public funds.  Surely that's too high?  I can't find any means of comparison to double-check.  I was just expecting MUCH lower than that, but would like to have sort of a handle on what to actually expect.  Thanks in advance for anyone who can provide some insight.  (And just as a note, we were careful to make sure everything was only applied for with my husband and son in mind except the child tax credit, so we should be covered immigration-wise!)

If he has only returned to the UK that recently, there is a strong possibility that his application for JSA, HB/CTB is going to be turned down because he has not been back in the UK long enough.

Furthermore, both of you need an NI number to apply for all these benefits, as he is married, regardless of your immigration status, which will be addressed further on in the forms for EVERYTHING, including HB/CTB  and CTC.  One of the first questions on all these forms is the applicant's marital status and/or if they are living with a partner.

If you or your husband have savings of or more than £6,000 here or abroad, then the claimant will receive reduced JSA, as benefits are a safety net for people with very little or nothing, not to safeguard someone's savings.

He's best off making an appointment with an advisor at a JobCentre Plus before wasting time on everything else.

HB/CTB is run by councils, and the forms are looonnngg.  No point in going there until he works out what, if any, JSA he is eligible to claim and receive.

Are you misreading my post?  I'm confused by your response.  He has already been to Job Centre and applied for these things (with the exception of the two that had to be applied for by mail).  If we had any sort of savings left, we wouldn't need to apply for anything of these things, so that's a non-issue.  He completed his applications and they were looked over by the person at Job Centre  before he left.  We were told that the benefits would begin on January 15.  He's a British citizen, so he has an NI number that he used to fill out the applications.  We were told by JohnL that since I don't have an NI number, the application for Child Tax Credit would start that process.

How long is "long enough" to have been back in the UK to qualify for these things?  He is just as much a British citizen now as he was when he grew up here and worked here before coming to America, so why would he be turned down for that to which he is entitled?

Are you misreading my post?  I'm confused by your response.  He has already been to Job Centre and applied for these things (with the exception of the two that had to be applied for by mail).  If we had any sort of savings left, we wouldn't need to apply for anything of these things, so that's a non-issue.  He completed his applications and they were looked over by the person at Job Centre  before he left.  We were told that the benefits would begin on January 15.  He's a British citizen, so he has an NI number that he used to fill out the applications.  We were told by JohnL that since I don't have an NI number, the application for Child Tax Credit would start that process.

How long is "long enough" to have been back in the UK to qualify for these things?  He is just as much a British citizen now as he was when he grew up here and worked here before coming to America, so why would he be turned down for that to which he is entitled?

No, I'm not misreading your posts.  I'm saying that a lot of htese benefits have residency requirements attached to them, as in, having been resident for at least 12 months previous to this.  In fact, there's another member of this board, also a British national, who has been denied benefits because she has only recently returned here.   

So there may be a bit of a surprise, particularly regarding housing and council tax benefits.

The same applies to British nationals applying to universities and colleges, for example.  Despite being British, if they have not been resident in the UK for the 3 years prior to admission, they have to pay international student fees.

I'm also really surprised at the jobsworth in the JobCentre just taking his application through when it wasn't complete.  Yes, wasn't complete.  Because I've filled out those forms myself for my husband and *always* had to fill in my own information, even when I was on FLR.  In fact, when I first got here, the entire reason I got an NI number wasn't because I had a job, but because I needed the NI number to put on DH's Working Tax Credit application - he had to re-do it as he was married.  DH had to briefly sign on when we moved over here.  I had to go in to the Centre as well and show both my passports (I am now a British national) despite the fact that he was applying for himself.  There's space on the forms to explain if your spouse or partner is not entitled to public funds.

I've filled out HB/CTB forms in two different councils for ourselves and in four different councils for others and there's not a one that allows an applicant to completely leave out details of their spouse or domestic partner that I've seen.  Or a one that doesn't ask you what your address was for the past 4 years at least.  Even applications to get on the housing list ask that.

All I'm saying is that it's always a good idea to keep a copy of ANY application you sign.  Because even if the benefits agency botches things up and processes an incomplete application, they can come back to the claimant years down the line and demand the benefits back.  For their error, even, if you fail to spot it.

Now you've got me pretty terrified!  We didn't see anywhere in the paperwork (nor did the Job Centre person) mention a requirement like that.  I'm looking online now, but do you happen to have a link handy about it?  My husband is going to call tomorrow to find out more, but we're really in a dire situation and if we get denied or anything ... it's not going to be good.  Thanks for your responses so far-- I really appreciate it.  I posted about applying for benefits a few weeks ago (including that we haven't been in the country very long) and no one mentioned this!

Edited to add: I've just read through the entire PDF of Job Seeker's Allowance from here (http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/Customers/WorkingAgeBenefits/Dev_015272.xml.html linked at the bottom) and it doesn't say anything about needing to have been here a certain amount of time to qualify.  And on the same site, it says if you're entitled to JSA, you're entitled to Housing Benefit, etc.  So now I'm really confused!

Now you've got me pretty terrified!  We didn't see anywhere in the paperwork (nor did the Job Centre person) mention a requirement like that.  I'm looking online now, but do you happen to have a link handy about it?  My husband is going to call tomorrow to find out more, but we're really in a dire situation and if we get denied or anything ... it's not going to be good.  Thanks for your responses so far-- I really appreciate it.  I posted about applying for benefits a few weeks ago (including that we haven't been in the country very long) and no one mentioned this!

HB/CTB is always handled by the council.  The Job Centre will give you the forms, or you can download them for your local council's website, but they must be returned to the council office for processing.  If you're a council tenant, the HB/CTB is paid directly the council.  If you're a private tenant, it's usually paid in the form of 'local allowance' and deposited directly into your bank account. 

For JSA, you always get a letter before the benefit starts, to confirm things such as the bank account where it will be paid, disability status, amount to be paid, etc.  If there is any further info they need, they send out a letter telling you what information they are missing to process a claim and you go either post the stuff to them or go into the JobCentre and they take a copy. 

For example, you always have to show all your bank statements, building society books, etc. that they call 'anything else that tells us about your savings'.

There's space on the forms to explain if your spouse or partner is not entitled to public funds.

Yes, and he filled that part out to the effect that he is married and that am not allowed to access public funds.  The person at Job Centre indicated not to put my information down on the application since I wasn't being considered for the benefits.  So basically, the applications have my husband's information, that he is married, and that I am not entitled to public funds.

We're renting privately, but the HB/CTB forms were filled out when he was at Job Centre.  He had to provide our bank information and all that for everything.  We haven't gotten anything in the mail confirming anything or asking for more information

How odd.  Because back when I was on FLR, I was given an NI number through the DSS - I had to go to an interview for it and show my passport and visa and letter from the HO, which the person photocopied - for DH to even get Working Tax Credit. 

Even though he was applying on behalf of himself.

Ditto when he had to sign on (JSA), I had to provide my information because he's married.

And I just looked through our records, because after a mishap involving the Tax Credit Office, I keep everything when it comes to stuff like this, and we got two letters before he started getting JSA.  One saying we hadn't provided enough information regarding savings (and we, too, completed the form at the Job Centre, where copies of my passports were taken) and then another saying what we were to be paid, when it was going to be paid and where it was going.

We get Working and Child Tax Credits now, and again, you always get an award letter detailing what and how you're being paid before it kicks in.  Ditto Child Benefit.

I guess I'm just confused because of what JohnL said in a previous post of mine-- unless I'm reading him wrong, he's indicating that Child Benefit and Housing Benefit MUST be only in one person's name (which they were) and that tax credits must be in BOTH people's names (which they were).  (http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=49601.msg703046#msg703046) This is the post I'm referring to where he says it in the comments.

Child benefit is NOT means-tested.  And yes, it must be in one person's name.  Housing and council tax benefit, however, are mean-tested, therefore, an applicant must still supply his partner's or spouse's information, such as monies they have, on the form.  If you look at HB/CTB forms, they always ask for your partner's or spouse's information.  I haven't seen a one yet that doesn't. 

You are being legit, but a lot of people aren't.  Hence, why, even when DH applied for WTC and just put 'I'm married but my wife isn't entitled to public funds', the DWP (it was handled by them back in mid-2002) came back and wanted to see my stuff and I was contacted by the DSS for an NI number interview.  Because, particularly as EU nationals are entitled to claim such benefits even though their spouses and families live abroad, you can see where the system is open to abuse.

Whatever you do, and no matter how skint you get, you must pay your council tax in full.  No matter if they take forever to process the application.  In such a case what they'd do is refund the monies that you paid over and above the CTC award from the time the claim was first submitted or give you credit.  It's lame if you're skint, but it's one of those things that has to be paid.

We got our first council tax bill in the mail the other day and my husband called and told them that we'd applied for CTC, and the woman said they could put a hold on the bill until it was approved.  I'm hoping that's really the case.  Thanks again for all your help.  Still hoping JohnL will be around to chime in, though!!  Maybe his ear will start itching and he'll log on.  I'm just sick over this because we're the very definition of skint at the moment.

My husband called Job Centre this morning.  The person DID have him fill out everything totally wrong by not including my information.  They also totally left out telling him that since he'd been out of the UK for more than 2 years, he's required to take some sort of residency test that they were very vague about.  They're mailing out new forms, and it will take a minimum of 2 weeks for them to get back to them and be processed.  Then he has to get a test date and go from there.  CTC and HB are completely on hold until this is all sorted out for JSA.  So basically, they completely screwed us over.  We're completely and utterly broke, but were thankfully approved for a crisis loan this afternoon.

This is so many kinds of awful.  Child benefit they said would take 2-3 months to kick in.  It's just lovely that they put someone who is a BRITISH CITIZEN through all this crap simply because he chose to live elsewhere for a few years.  Anyway, many many thanks to expat_in_scotland for opening my eyes to all this.  Pretty convenient for them that it's impossible to find online anywhere.

In the meantime, please go and apply to get your NI number.  You will need this to complete forms (even for Tax Credits if your spouse gets a job in the interim), regardless of your immigration status.  Again, I got mine through the DSS not because of having a job, but because DH had to re-do his Working Tax Credit application when we got married, and they needed me to have an NI number (this was back before HMRC took over running these tax credits, however).  This was some years ago, but I'd ask the JobCentre how to go about getting one if you are not working.

There's always a wait for things like this, even if you've never lived anyplace else.  It can take a while to process.  Some councils, in particular, take ages to process HB/CTB forms.  DWP can come back and say they need more information.  Agencies can lose things.  Etc. Etc.

I only knew about the £6,000 savings thing reducing the amount of JSA a person is eligible for because my BIL was made redundant last month and got a severence package.  And guess what?  He's not even eligible for contribution-based JSA because of that (he's single with no dependents).  But he still applied so he won't miss out on NI whilst he is out of work.

Just take copies of everything he or you complete (you both need to sign the Tax Credit forms and many councils' HB/CTB forms as well).

I hope he has some luck finding work, too! 

I'll give them a ring tomorrow and see what I need to do to get that done.  Lord knows I just want things to go smoothly.  Hopefully they don't manage to screw it up!  We've got a scanner at home, so I'll make sure to copy everything we do here and ask for copies of things we fill out when we're out.

My husband has an appointment at yet another agency this week and a final interview for another job on the 28th, so I'm really praying we'll get good news soon!  Thanks again for all your help.  We really appreciate it.

We FINALLY found out today that jobseeker's and that lot was approved (thank GOD!).  This was after calling basically every day for the last week and a half and being told they'd have an answer the following day, which never happened until now.  When they said it was approved, it was followed by a big old "BUT," but to our relief, it was just saying that I had no recourse to public funds, so we weren't getting anything for me (so they happily got that bit right, too!).

The habitual resident test turned out to just be more paperwork, basically asking about my husband's ties to England, why he returned, etc.  Anyway, my original question on this post was about how much we'll be receiving, as I am kind of baffled by the large numbers that I'm finding online.  Jobcentre, of course, is "going to get back to us" on exact amounts, which probably means we won't know until we get a deposit into our bank account.  So is anyone able to eyeball the numbers in my original post and give me an idea if they look right?

(PS-- my husband has two final interviews this week, so hopefully he'll have a job and be working soon anyway!)