Has the UK Really Gotten Like This????

yes not all, i realize that, but majority was you cant deny that. And i am pretty astonished that people are really clueless about how America has we know it know got started. Boston Tea party ring a bell?  who was that against?  who were the "colonists" revoloting agianst in the American Revolution? where where they colonists from?  answer those questions and you'll know who established the 13 colonies and set the course of esablishing America.

You're assuming people don't know the history when they don't agree with your misrepresentation of it.  There's a difference.

Even before mass migration in the EU, English culture isn't the same as it was in the Georgian period.  The United States gained a lot more territory and a lot more history than was contained in the orginal 13 colonies.

In a way, I can sympathise with you (maybe I will live to regret this).  I love the uniqueness of different cultures.  I know what you are saying about immigration threatening the traditions of a nation.  Yet, I don't think culture, unless controlled by authoritarian measures, is ever static, immigration or no.

How could you not see it as such?  You are American, not English, Scottish or Welsh.  You can deny your own American status as much as you like....but you are still American.  No matter what part of the world you live in.

Ok i am American, but if i follow your culture to the Tee, then how am i mingling?

You're assuming people don't know the history when they don't agree with your misrepresentation of it.  There's a difference.

Even before mass migration in the EU, English culture isn't the same as it was in the Georgian period.  The United States gained a lot more territory and a lot more history than was contained in the orginal 13 colonies.

In a way, I can sympathise with you (maybe I will live to regret this).  I love the uniqueness of different cultures.  I know what you are saying about immigration threatening the traditions of a nation.  Yet, I don't think culture, unless controlled by authoritarian measures, is ever static, immigration or no.

you do know history, but it is the way you look at it i guess. ok New york the example you gave me, had several different cultures in it even back in the 13 colony times. But who were the first to colonize that area form Europe? who established a formal colony there? i mean the colonies were fighting the spanish and french for territory too in that area, so who were these mysterious colonists that were doing the fighting?  who's army was doign the fighting? Which country's king was the declaration of indepandants signed agianst?


all answers are Britian.

Ok, but you can say that America, which started from the 13 colonies, was started by British colonists right?

The colonies were a British possession.  That doesn't mean that everyone in the colonies were British, and not all those who were of British descent identified with British culture or were even of English descent.

even though, the area of America was colonized by serveral different countries like spain (Florida) and france (the whole mid region, America was esablished by British colonists, just like Australia and Canada for the most part. When i mean America was esablished i mean who set up the formal governemnt that we have today.

Ok i am American, but if i follow your culture to the Tee, then how am i mingling?

For example, Polish follow it to a tee.  Yet because we have a large comunity of them..we now have polish newspapers, Polish food in shops.  They have not overrun us tho.  We are a nation that understands that we have a group of people who would benefit from this.  Same as you Spanish stuff.

I think rather than dismiss being American you need to think about what you like from being an American rather than focussing on what you don't.  I agree that individual cultures are fascinating....but I would rather learn from them than take a disliking to them.  I find it makes you more of a rounded person....I am British..I will always be British.  If you stuck me in America I would still be British.  Even if I followed the rules of the country...I would still be seen as British..because thats who I am...and you are American.

I don't really think a history lesson as to why you would better be suited to the UK because god knows however many years ago..someone in America was British. If that was the case....if you went back further in history....were all descendants from the same people and we are all "Edenists" ( or whatever people from Eden would call themselves  )

The colonies were a British possession.  That doesn't mean that everyone in the colonies were British, and not all those who were of British descent identified with British culture or were even of English descent.

Now your getting into simantics. The majority of the colonists were British, and most were actaully born in Britain before coming over to the colonies, look at most of the foundning fathers, most were born in britain, while some in the actual colonies. And culture wise, who brought pubs to the colonies, what kind of fashion were they wearing?

I mean to try to seperate the establishment of America and the people that established it from Britian is a losing situation. I dont know what they teach you in Enlgand, but here we are taught that British descendants set up the governemnt we know today, and the evidence proves that, end of story. i really dont know where your getting at by saying it was not? then who started it? a bunch of different countries in a coalition?  the founding fathers established america and ALL OF THEM WERE EITHER BRITISH BORN OR OF BRITSH DESCENT, please find me ONE that WASN'T. Ohh yea and Half breeds dont count if there was any. like half french and enlgish descent, if there was any at that.

For example, Polish follow it to a tee.  Yet because we have a large comunity of them..we now have polish newspapers, Polish food in shops.  They have not overrun us tho.  We are a nation that understands that we have a group of people who would benefit from this.  Same as you Spanish stuff.

I think rather than dismiss being American you need to think about what you like from being an American rather than focussing on what you don't.  I agree that individual cultures are fascinating....but I would rather learn from them than take a disliking to them.  I find it makes you more of a rounded person....I am British..I will always be British.  If you stuck me in America I would still be British.  Even if I followed the rules of the country...I would still be seen as British..because thats who I am...and you are American.

I don't really think a history lesson as to why you would better be suited to the UK because god knows however many years ago..someone in America was British. If that was the case....if you went back further in history....were all descendants from the same people and we are all "Edenists" ( or whatever people from Eden would call themselves  )

Well that is good for the Polish people there. But i agre they have not changed anything of the culture. But if lets say you call somwehre and the recording asked, press 1 for english and press 2 fro polish. how would you like that? and if your voting papers came in with both enlgish and Polish and maybe 5 other langauges. and if you wen tot your local grocery store (lets assume it is not an ethnic one) and all the signs were half enlgish and polish or whatver for that matter. WOuld you mind? oh yea and when you try to read instructions on puting somehtin gtogether you just bought and you cant find the english side. so does that make you wonder who's contry your living in now?

now let me say i am not picking on the Polish people, i have nothing against them at all. but i am using it as only an example you can apply any other language and culture if you wanted to in those examples.

Also, plese give me your honest opinion about it, cus i thnk you are a honest person from what i have read.

I will give you my honest answer i eould not stand for it as a british citizen if i were in your shoes.

Well that is good for the Polish people there. But i agre they have not changed anything of the culture. But if lets say you call somewhere and the recording asked, press 1 for english and press 2 fro polish. how would you like that? and if your voting papers came in with both enlgish and Polish and maybe 5 other langauges. and if you wen tot your local grocery store (lets assume it is not an ethnic one) and all the signs were half enlgish and polish or whatver for that matter. WOuld you mind? oh yea and when you try to read instructions on puting somehtin gtogether you just bought and you cant find the english side. so does that make you wonder who's contry your living in now?

That happens here too in some circumstances.  I have a polish Bank Manger.  There are three Polish members in my bank to help citizens who do not speak great English to help them with their banking.  Its provided because of the need for it.

Instructions for items usually come in every European langage possible and occasionally Chinese or Japanese and it always makes my mind boggle  but that is nothing to do with those cultures here, that is because its catering for all the countries concerned for that item.

Voting papers, Newspapers, Magazines and council documents can be any European language..Spanish..Portuguese..french..German and so on and so on..

Shops sell Polish Foods, French Foods, Greek Foods, Spanish Foods, Mexican Foods...I love the diversity...I get fed up of plain old English food 

My honest opinion here is that I would like to think that whoever chose to live here would make the effort to speak the native language and live by the rules...otherwise I couldn't care less where they are from.  The UK have rules about the English language being spoken and understood here.  Not that we tell people they can not speak in their own language..but its hard for a non English speaking person to secure work here. From what you are saying...this is possibly the problem? not the cultural mingling..but the non understanding of the English language..hence why there is a need for signs in various languages in the states 

There a lots of religious buildings here too.  Not only do we have churches...but we also have Mosques, Synagogues, Hindu and Buddhist temples and many other places of worship.  These were built to cater for various communities who also live here.

If you are seriously worried about various cultures in the states being catered for...then you are going to be very disappointed in England..because it happens here too.

You have them! Try the Russian grocery on the corner of Claremont and Briarcliff Rd in Atlanta. They carry the Russian version which is as good. They have some other tasty treats too. Get in there!

Ooh! I will have to look for that! Thanks!!!!!!!!! I love international food but really haven't had the chance to try eastern european/russian food really!

Hiya S2B!

Looking at yours and other posters reponses - just have a little breather.

ok,

In todays modern world, and especially the 'Western' world, theres nowhere left that doesn't have a 'changed' culture. Immigration has occured in all the G8 nations.

You say you are sick of the USA culture being overrun by the Spanish - i.e you call up and you get English and Spanish as choices. To me I think Excellent! it shows toleration, a welcomeness of embracing other cultures into your own and forming a newer one and more improved rather than 'negative' as you seem to think. No doubt there are people out there who want the process of 'culture' halted at what they percieve as the 'best' - which has already been pointed out by another poster earlier. That put quite simply - won't happen!

You also seem to have this notion of British Culture being frozen at some point which seems to exclude others. Well, that 'may' have been true some decades ago, but again, in todays society you will not get that. When you call some government call centres and private call centres (taking that example for a second) quite often you'll get a request if you'll want it in Welsh! or Urdu! or Punjabi or Hindi and recently Polish (amongst others I think) excellent again I say - We are a Multi Cultural society, and I don't think that will ever change - so that 'seems' to have put a spanner in your works about moving here?!

History lessons are not really needed when considering an international move within the G8 and more so in many many other countries of the world for the reasons you seem to put forward. I seriously doubt theres any country left on the planet which hasn't had some level of immigration! - severely limits your choices it seems!

Now for the other element which has been sort of discussed.

Yes, you will experience areas of the UK where the visible effects of immigration are less incorporated. I've personally experienced it and been to those places. The people there when I met them were warm, friendly, inquisitive and I got on fantastically with them (I'm English born and of North Indian origins) to me, I thought, even though they have their 'culture' I've somehow improved theirs and they have improved mine by meeting and chatting - tolerance and curiousness I guess! a positive result all round!

Are you saying to me that if I had met you in that same scenario, you would've thought 'dam, letting in allsorts of foriegners into here and ruining or polluting UK culture'? it certainly sounds like it ! to which my response would be 'pity you' !

Yes, there are 'darker' pockets of UK culture and people who want to restrict immigration very severely, they'll get nowwhere - the ones who spring to mind when I think of people like that are

1. the BNP so called political party
2. Ignorant or certainly quite ignorant type people
3. Whats recently been characterised as CHAV's
4. Racists.

Again to all those people - I pity them, I haven't got time for them really!

From a Business mind and professional mind - If you restrict the influx of immigrants and by this I suppose you mean well intended, wanting to work and contribute to society type individuals ..  then who's going to cover the range of jobs and opportunities they currently do? becuase you can bet your bottom Dollar/Pound/Euro - a substantial part of British Culture population doesn't want to do them and prefers instead to sit on the benefits system!

And think of the worldwide reputation of the country or a country that adopts such a policy!?! how long before international countries don't want to trade with such a place? i'll tell you, days! that's all it would take for other countries to respond to a policy such as this.


So, I'm not calling you any names, not being argumentative or pushing things down yer throat - but as suggested, definitley fly on over and spend some time here and get to know the UK culture as IT IS NOW! I think it'll help shape your mind more and looking positively, will help you accept and tolerate more and ultimately enjoy it more !

Lastly just as an example..   a few years ago, the most popular dish in the UK was Fish n Chips! and blimmin yummy they are too! however, the 'British' so LOVED Indian cooking and cuisines that THEY adopted the Chicken Tikka Masala dish to such an extent that it's now the most popular dish in the UK!

Have you picked yourself up of the floor yet matey?!

Cheers! DtM! West London & Slough UK!

P.S - I've been to the states countless times (and Canada too) put simply I love the culture there and I love the culture here ! think about it !!

You say you are sick of the USA culture being overrun by the Spanish - i.e you call up and you get English and Spanish as choices. To me I think Excellent! it shows toleration, a welcomeness of embracing other cultures into your own and forming a newer one and more improved rather than 'negative' as you seem to think.

Why? it is a simple question of why should a majority of a culture in their homeland embrace the culture of other people's immigrating in? Why would they HAVE to change their culture?

And you assume that mixing cultures forms a more improved culture, who says? is that a fact?
the only thing fact in that sentence is that it forms a newer culture, yes it does.


No "mate" if i would meet you i would not think of you as a foreigner ruining the culture, because i assume you have a British accent, were taught in British schools, and probably follow most if not all of the standards of the culture. But you walk up to me and don't speak English, wearing pajamas or a rag around you, holding a a goats body that had its neck freshly cut, then yea i would be like "what the bloody hell is this guy doing in my country when he looks like he should be in his own country." Simple, either conform to your host country, like a catalyst or don't come. Change of the culture should not be forced, it is the discussion of the host contry if they want to change. Like your example of the national dish (and for the life of me i cant figure that one out). And accommodating is the same as forcing. It legitimizes the other people's culture or language and it forces the people of the host country to accept it. If this was not the case then why are they the BNP and other "racist" groups. because obviously not everyone thinks like some people do. And by the way it is not an accident why the BNP is not gaining political power in recent months. Because you have this one siding forcing of cultures. Why not force the immigrants to speak English? or wear British style clothing? and etc. Why is this a one way street? Compromising is a two way deal not a one way deal, when its one way it is forcing. Mixing is comprised of two or more things being blended together, not one thing being blended with it's self.

That happens here too in some circumstances.  I have a polish Bank Manger.  There are three Polish members in my bank to help citizens who do not speak great English to help them with their banking.  Its provided because of the need for it.

Instructions for items usually come in every European langage possible and occasionally Chinese or Japanese and it always makes my mind boggle  but that is nothing to do with those cultures here, that is because its catering for all the countries concerned for that item.

Voting papers, Newspapers, Magazines and council documents can be any European language..Spanish..Portuguese..french..German and so on and so on..

Shops sell Polish Foods, French Foods, Greek Foods, Spanish Foods, Mexican Foods...I love the diversity...I get fed up of plain old English food 

My honest opinion here is that I would like to think that whoever chose to live here would make the effort to speak the native language and live by the rules...otherwise I couldn't care less where they are from.  The UK have rules about the English language being spoken and understood here.  Not that we tell people they can not speak in their own language..but its hard for a non English speaking person to secure work here. From what you are saying...this is possibly the problem? not the cultural mingling..but the non understanding of the English language..hence why there is a need for signs in various languages in the states 

There a lots of religious buildings here too.  Not only do we have churches...but we also have Mosques, Synagogues, Hindu and Buddhist temples and many other places of worship.  These were built to cater for various communities who also live here.

If you are seriously worried about various cultures in the states being catered for...then you are going to be very disappointed in England..because it happens here too.

i guess the above post answers your post as well about the catering of cultures. And no understanind of english is the reason why we need signs in the states, and it is only for spanish. and also the problem is the mingling of cultures, i dont like my culture changed from under me just becuase some group of people form another country have put up shop in my country. And by the way why is it the burden of the first world nations to accomidate other cultures. DOyou know in saudia arabia and Aphganastan, it is ILLIGAL to make a church or any other religious house of worship, and in most cases converting to another religious is a death sentence. But for example when those people leave their country and ceom here, they want to be accomodated?  lol this is a double standard stuff i am talking about. and the only answer a person can counter with  is " we're not like them, we are better then them, that is why you do it". Yea right, if that group pof people were soo much raptured in their culture then why leave your home country? jobs? how can you get jobs without knowing enlgish like you said before?  i can asnwer that one cus you accomodate the people thats why. then they coem to your country get accomodating and force you to change your culture to suit them. now not everyone is like this, i know, but it is happening. Don't sleep while your country is being taken form under you. and if you think i am a paranoid idiot, then you are mistaken my friends, i am a realist. and the reality is that, you can run from it, but you cant hide from the aftermath of it. Believe me people are sick and tired of being stepped over in their own homeland becasue of accomadation of immigrants.

and noby has replyed to the numerous examples i gave, the one about the poor white class is a great example. IS it becuase you dont want to accknowledge the problem? does it dash your multi-culture utopia dreams?

lastley, multi culturism is the most stupidest thing i have every heard. every culture has its own interesting aspects, why do you want to mesh them al together to make this huge crap ball of a culture?  what will happen to language? we all speak the same too now? lol  please, thsi is a fantasy people dreamed up. i think it is cool to go to a polish deli to get polish sausage and go to a french restaurant or indian restaurant, i liek to dabble in another culture. However i said dabble in it not be surounded in it, or in some fasion change my culture.

I give you easy example ok.


Muslims and Jews dont eat pork correct?  yes they dont, ok. now many muslims in uk and some jews in uk too. ok now i would like to go to a muslim restuarant and eat halal meat, sounds interesteing. BUT i dont want theor culture to be inpossed on my culture which consists of eating pork.  See the difference of experienced another culture and then forced to adobt antoher culture? and in this case you see how are a comprimize would be. ok muslim guys have to wear ties and everyone else cant eat pork. that is a comprimize, but would you do it? you would't, well at least i hope you would't anyway. see even comprimizing is difficult. WHich just shows you further, immigrants have to conform to host country if they dont thats when you get tension.

OH yea and by the way i dont remember getting the memo about how i felt about immigrants coming in my country. So they are not doing me any favors by coming here, they are doign themselves a favor by coming here. and for the pople that say they do the jobs the host country's people wont is rubbish. see all thos elazy chavs you have, get them off their dumbasses and put them to work. Problem solved no you dont need ali or rashid to clean your toliot for you. It is the lazyness of the popluatiopn that caused this mess. if people relized it meant their culture would possibly change i dont think people would have allowed this much immigration. that is exactly why they are cutting back on it, well the UK anyway, cus America has its dress up over it's head and has a que standing behind it all the time. Oh yea agian when did the "people" of the host country decide to do it anyway?  i didnt get the memo did you? cus if i had the chance to vote i would vote to highly restrict and put  money towrds getting lazy asses of my own country folks to get put into work. and if they did this there would be less chavs, that means less drug dealing, less taxpayer strain, less crime. but noooo, get rashid over here from pakistan to do it (and pay him really low wages, which is wrong and a whole other reason why companies do it) while Johnny Chav get to be in common housing dealing drugs out his window and stabbing granddad for his pension check.

Why? it is a simple question of why should a majority of a culture in their homeland embrace the culture of other people's immigrating in? Why would they HAVE to change their culture?

I eat Indian food sometimes.  I eat English food sometimes. I am considering learning Polish. Do I consider myself anything other than English? nope. Do my opinions change because I have another religious group alternative to mine who lives a few doors down? nope.  Do I feel I have to adapt my lifestyle or change it in anyway because of another nationality? nope.

No "mate" if i would meet you i would not think of you as a foreigner ruining the culture, because i assume you have a British accent, were taught in British schools, and probably follow most if not all of the standards of the culture.

Nothing to do with it.  As Dennis said.  He is of a Indian decent.  At some point, Dennis's family were part of the immigration culture that you are knocking, but you accept him.

Please stop emphasizing "mate" its very patronising.  You don't know Dennis and you should only use that once you are well known to eachother.  I wouldn't say "Dude" to you and emphasise it..

It's not showing you in a friendly light and I am sure thats not what your trying to aim for.

But you walk up to me and don't speak English, wearing pajamas or a rag around you, holding a a goats body that had its neck freshly cut, then yea i would be like "what the bloody hell is this guy doing in my country when he looks like he should be in his own country." Simple, either conform to your host country, like a catalyst or don't come.

You are aware that you can be British and not necessarily a Christian?  British citizens can all follow separate religions.  Things like wearing a turban or a sari, Eating certain types of food that are prepared in a certain way etc are part of that religion.  How is pr acticing their religion effect me or my lifestyle as a Christian? It doesn't.

Change of the culture should not be forced, it is the discussion of the host contry if they want to change. Like your example of the national dish (and for the life of me i cant figure that one out). And accommodating is the same as forcing. It legitimizes the other people's culture or language and it forces the people of the host country to accept it.

Give me a example of a country that does not accommodate other cultures much and have a think if you would really like to live there? not that you would really have a hope in hell because you would be considered "diluting" their culture   Also..they are behind the times with politics and government usually...and live in a dictatorship...Such as Saddam.

If this was not the case then why are they the BNP and other "racist" groups. because obviously not everyone thinks like some people do. And by the way it is not an accident why the BNP is not gaining political power in recent months. Because you have this one siding forcing of cultures. Why not force the immigrants to speak English? or wear British style clothing?

The BNP are not in power because they are a bunch of Toss Pots! The UK do have systems where to gain citizenship we have language comprehension tests.  Nobody here is saying everyone thinks the same.  If we did, what a dull place we would live in.

I think your problem perhaps is that the States do not have a basic language test before being granted to stay?? I could be incorrect.