Online Banking

you then have this second screen of annoyance where it asks for three random characters from your "memorable information."  So, if you have "extraneouscrap", the form may ask for characters 4, 8, and 12.  You don't get to type these in but rather select them from a drop-down list of the 26 letters and 10 numbers possible (btw, that would be r, o, r). 

And after you get through all that, you get the Lloyd's notification page, which says "We haven't sent you any emails.  If you got an email that says it's from us, it's not."  That's cool, but how many times do I need to see this notification?  I'd estimate I've seen it at least 30 times, and no amount of checking boxes next to it to say I've seen it will make it go away for more than a day or two before they feel the need to tell me they still haven't sent me an email.

Overall, I like Lloyd's, but the online bank could use some tweaking to make it smoother.

RBS has a very good system

Login with birthdate and 2 digit id number
enter 3 random digits from your chosen pass number
enter 3 random alphanumeric characters from you chosen password

Any abnormal usage such as changes to addresseses, payee etc requires additional random inputs and obtaining additional code from a handheld card reader.

A pain? Not to me. It is one of the best securty systems for on-line banking.
I don't want it to be easy.
Even with all the different codes and passwords, I can go online and pay a bill and be done in less than 5 minutes.

My alternative involves making sure of the time (is it between 9 and 430), getting dressed, putting shoes on, putting on jacket, walking (or driving - add more time) to bank, waiting in queue, carry out transaction. Re trace steps home, hopefully avoiding all those cream cakes staring out at me from the bakery windows on the way.


(Tip - log on and off as many times as it takes until you remember your codes and passwords by heart - then destroy all traces of any written or stored passwords)

(Word of caution - IF any theft occurs to your account and the bank discovers you have written passwords down this may null and void any claim against them)

With some of those drop-down boxes you can, once the box is tabbed to or clicked on, type in some or all of the required information.  Not all will allow this but I have found that a lot do.

Doesn't work on the Lloyds-TSB pages, unfortunately.

And after you get through all that, you get the Lloyd's notification page, which says "We haven't sent you any emails.  If you got an email that says it's from us, it's not."  That's cool, but how many times do I need to see this notification?  I'd estimate I've seen it at least 30 times, and no amount of checking boxes next to it to say I've seen it will make it go away for more than a day or two before they feel the need to tell me they still haven't sent me an email.

And they use that to plug other services over and over.  It gets annoying having to keep acknowledging those messages just to get to your account summary page.

It's one of those features which when overused is likely to result in people just automatically clicking the box to suppress the messages without even looking at them properly, thus running the risk of missing something which might actually be of significance.

I actually don't mind Lloyds Tsb Online banking.  The unique long number was a Pain to start with, but now I remember everything from the top of my head.  I always found it a good service - perhaps I am in the minority

I'm with Lloyds-TSB and find that ridiculously laborious too.  In fact I get annoyed with a lot of online forms which insist on you using drop down selection boxes to enter information which could simply be typed into a field and then verified when sent, such as entering a date.  Click on a drop-down box for the month and then select "March."  Click on another drop-down box for the day, scroll down until you find "18" and select it.  Do the same for the year.   It all takes at least three to four times as long as just going to one entry field and just typing "3/18/09."   

I think this is a security measure to defeat keyloggers. In this day an age, they are a fairly common threat.

My UK bank would put me through hurdles to sign on and then if I had to call, it would be the same (ok, I got used to the security questions because its the same in the US when on the phone) but one thing that always bugged me was that once I was through security they would causally ask "where are you calling from today?". The first time I said, "from my office" and the rep asked "where is your office?". They had no idea where my office was located. What about if I was calling while on vacation or back in the states? Stupid question! To me, that was the same as what the airlines used to ask..."did anyone else pack your luggage".

Everytime I called, they would always ask that question. I got so sick of always being treated like a suspect/potential criminal. 

I think this is a security measure to defeat keyloggers. In this day an age, they are a fairly common threat.

It wouldn't be a particularly effective measure.  Any software which has sufficient access to your communications to log keystrokes will also have sufficient access to record packets and determine the data you are sending back anyway.

It wouldn't be a particularly effective measure.  Any software which has sufficient access to your communications to log keystrokes will also have sufficient access to record packets and determine the data you are sending back anyway.

Yes. SSL doesn't kick in until the data transfer occurs, hence it cannot fend off keyloggers, or other malware that intercepts (and possibly redirects) communications before it hits the SSL channel. Natwest are encouraging their online customers to download & install an app called Trusteer Rapport which, among other things, uses API blocking to prevent this type of behaviour. It also encrypts the data from the keyboard to the network, offering a local security layer until its handed off to SSL.

Of course, it's only a matter of time before this sort of app gets cracked, and then you're back to square one.

And as this relates to the original point, if/when you do protect the data by whatever means, then there's no security reason why you shouldn't just type the required characters instead of having to select them from a long drop-down list.   The only reason I can think of for using those drop-downs instead of just having the user type the date or the letters from his password etc. is that it saves the website programmer from having to validate entries, as only the options provided can be selected.   

What I find MOST annoying is those new card readers you need whenever making a new payment online...

Ick! I know. I actually switched banks because the Natwest system was so labourious (well that and A&L gave me £100 quid to switch!)

I miss how my US bank's website would instantly have all debit card transactions online so that your current balance truly was your current balance. I could be out at the store, make a purchase on my debit card, come straight home, log on, and see the transaction already there.

It felt reassuring to know I didn't have to make my own half-assed guestimates rifling through my recent receipts to figure out my up-to-date balance. Now on the Lloyds, site, I do. Transactions can take days to show up. It feels like taking a step backward in modern conveniences. Sorry to be negative but this is one of the things that felt to me like going backwards in life by moving here.

I miss how my US bank's website would instantly have all debit card transactions online so that your current balance truly was your current balance. I could be out at the store, make a purchase on my debit card, come straight home, log on, and see the transaction already there.

It felt reassuring to know I didn't have to make my own half-assed guestimates rifling through my recent receipts to figure out my up-to-date balance. Now on the Lloyds, site, I do. Transactions can take days to show up. It feels like taking a step backward in modern conveniences. Sorry to be negative but this is one of the things that felt to me like going backwards in life by moving here.

If I understand it correctly, the reason for the delay doesn't actually have anything to do with internet banking. UK debit card transactions usually take a couple of days to go through the banking system and so it still takes a day or two for the transaction to show up on your account anyway, whether you have online banking or not.

This is because there are two different types of debit cards - online and offline. When online debit cards are used, the transaction is authorised electronically and the money is withdrawn from your account immediately. However, with offline debit cards, the transaction is normally authorised within 2-3 days of your purchase and so is not reflected on your balance immediately - so basically, when you are asked in the US if you want to pay by 'credit or debit', you are either agreeing to an offline (credit) sale or an online (debit) sale. I'm guessing with UK debit cards, the transactions are processed as offline, not online.

This is news to me, so thank you for posting this. Although, in that case, if UK debit cards are all processed as offline and thus have this hangtime on the transactions, that's still pretty frustrating and a step backwards from what I became accustomed to in the US.

I'm still confused though -- in the US, sometimes I chose the "credit" option for a debit card transaction in a store, and other times I chose "debit", (usually choosing credit because I didn't want to punch in my pin under certain circumstances) but still they both showed up immediately on my online statement that day.

I know this all sounds incredibly spoiled of me  ...in the US I just got so used to knowing that I could stay right on top of my exact balance at the click of a mouse or even a phone call to the automated info. The Lloyds TSB site gives such bare bones info that is never the true reflection of what's actually going on with my account, that it's barely worth visiting. It depresses me.

This is news to me, so thank you for posting this. Although, in that case, if UK debit cards are all processed as offline and thus have this hangtime on the transactions, that's still pretty frustrating and a step backwards from what I became accustomed to in the US.

That's just the way it works in the UK - it's always been that way, so I guess we're all just used to it (my dad doesn't use online banking, so he just keeps a running balance of all his transactions written down) . The difference between online and offline in the US is that online requires a PIN so it is processed and authorised immediately and offline requires a signature, which is not processed immediately. But the thing is, even though the UK has fully switched to chip-and-pin, obviously UK transactions are still going through the system as offline.

I'm still confused though -- in the US, sometimes I chose the "credit" option for a debit card transaction in a store, and other times I chose "debit", (usually choosing credit because I didn't want to punch in my pin under certain circumstances) but still they both showed up immediately on my online statement that day.

I don't know really - when I got my US debit card last year, I was told by the bank that if I paid by debit, the money would be taken out immediately, but if I paid by credit it would take 3 days to be taken out of the account. I didn't set up online banking for the account until only a few weeks ago (so 7 months after I left the US!), so I'm not sure how soon the transactions would appear on my US internet banking if I used my card.

Yep, even in the US, for a long while I kept a transactions register with my cheque book, and handwrote all my incoming and outgoing, like your dad.

That's why, when the US made pretty much all regular store transactions "immediate" it made things very convenient.

I don't know enough about the technical side of the way banks operate, but all I know is there was a point in the last few years when in the US it was announced that even a written cheque handed to a cashier, let alone a debit card, would be shown as deducted from your account balance instantly via electronic reporting. It meant that you couldn't wing it anymore....which was scary at first. But it also meant that your very newest balance would be constantly would be updated transaction by transaction, in effect anyway.

As that became the norm, for me it was a joy to be able to give up writing in my little register, instead knowing I can just access the info by phone or online. I still kept a rough overall tally mentally, but I just remember how I felt very freed when technology really made everything very instant and accessible, and I started to give up both chequebooks and their registers in which to write the transactions.