The few, the brave - those of us taking driving lessons right now!

That's what I was going to say - my parents' pre-1990s UK passports were dark blue with hardcovers, then when they renewed them in the early '90s, they got the new soft-covered burgundy ones. Passports issued between 1920 and 1988 looked like this (that one is from 1924!) and since 1988 they have looked like this.

I used to have that dark blue-black one, with the cutouts, and my name handwritten by the clerk at London's Petty France, into the paper bit inside the cutout. It was made of stiff card, and that plus the fact that things were clearly written in by hand must have looked cobbled together to the untrained eye --it was refused in more than one bar in Austin, in 1989 when I was just visiting and that was my only ID to show that I was over the drinking age!

The rather ignorant bar staff thought it looked fake. I was 27 but I was turned away and even had my beer snatched out of my hand.

Passports issued between 1920 and 1988 looked like this (that one is from 1924!) and since 1988 they have looked like this.

I wonder exactly when that 1924 example was actually issued, since the cover still states "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland."   Maybe it expired in 1924, or maybe it was issued in 1924 but they were using up old stocks?   

That aside, I have one of the last generation of the old dark blue-black passports issued in 1988, and although a few internal details had changed over the years, the cover really isn't much different from that example shown - Just a very slightly different design of crest, the change of the official country name to "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland," and the name and passport number printed the opposite way around (name at the top, number at the bottom). 

OK I think I found what you may have been referring to:
But I wouldn't think this would have anything to do with an agreement regarding driving licenses or lack thereof.

It hasn't stopped one or two states agreeing to swaps with some other countries anyway; I believe South Carolina will swap licenses with France, and vice versa.  (Now there's a legal route to "test-less" driving indefinitely in Britain!)

It also doesn't stop some states from simply waiving part of the test procedures for foreign license holders on a discretionary basis, just as they do for out-of-state American license holders. 

It hasn't stopped one or two states agreeing to swaps with some other countries anyway; I believe South Carolina will swap licenses with France, and vice versa.  (Now there's a legal route to "test-less" driving indefinitely in Britain!)

It also doesn't stop some states from simply waiving part of the test procedures for foreign license holders on a discretionary basis, just as they do for out-of-state American license holders. 

I wasn't arguing that Paul...it was contrex. I said all along it was up to the individual states, it just seems to me that most contries don't want to approach the individual states for agreements. Contrex believed it was part of the US Constitutional limits on States Rights and I could not find anything that supported that opinion, but I cited the information that I believed he was mistakenly referring to.

I wonder exactly when that 1924 example was actually issued, since the cover still states "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland."   Maybe it expired in 1924, or maybe it was issued in 1924 but they were using up old stocks?   

According to the Wiki page I found the picture on, the wording on the passport cover wasn't changed until 1927 - the year that country's name officially became "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" - so I imagine it was just a regular passport when it was issued.

Contrex believed it was part of the US Constitutional limits on States Rights and I could not find anything that supported that opinion, but I cited the information that I believed he was mistakenly referring to.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing, just pointing out that even if the Constitution did technically prohibit it, it seems to have already been going on anyway, even if "unofficially."

That clause mentions not only agreements with foreign powers but also with other states, so if it were applicable to this issue, surely that would mean that permission would be needed from Congress just to enter into a mutual-recognition agreement with a neighboring state?  That would then apply not just to driver licenses but to all sorts of other state-level things as well, such as professional licensing qualifications for various trades.

According to the Wiki page I found the picture on, the wording on the passport cover wasn't changed until 1927 - the year that country's name officially became "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" - so I imagine it was just a regular passport when it was issued.

You learn something every day!   The Irish Free State (later to become the Republic of Ireland) was created in 1921.  I never realized that the U.K.'s official name didn't change to reflect the new position until several years later.

I wasn't arguing that Paul...it was contrex. I said all along it was up to the individual states, it just seems to me that most contries don't want to approach the individual states for agreements. Contrex believed it was part of the US Constitutional limits on States Rights and I could not find anything that supported that opinion, but I cited the information that I believed he was mistakenly referring to.

I asked, "Aren't the states forbidden...?" - I was asking, not stating, and therefore I submit that "mistaken" is an inappropriate word to attach to my post.

I asked, "Aren't the states forbidden...?" - I was asking, not stating, and therefore I submit that "mistaken" is an inappropriate word to attach to my post.

My apologies, I misunderstood your use of 'aren't' and that your question was not a rhetorical one and the assumption of a believed fact behind it. I'll be the first to admit I am not perfect.

Forgot to update - my practical is booked for June 5th!  I won't meet my deadline I had in May because there were too many weeks' wait to book a practical.  Oh well, in the meantime, now I'll be driving back in the US, on the other side of the road in an automatic, falling back into all my old 'bad' habits... 

Lessons are going well - I need to try & get more practice in between lessons, and I need more work on my manoeuvres.  I'm glad I stuck with the manual transmission - it's definitely more fun & going for the automatic licence would have just been throwing money away since I need the full one anyway (we already own a manual car).

My instructor bought a different car this week & I got to be the first pupil to drive it!  He traded in his red Rover for a black MG sedan - you knew you were going somewhere when you pressed the accelerator in the MG!  It was fab. 

Oh & once I pass the practical & get my full licence, I'll have 'Learn to Drive' software (two different lots) and L-plates up for grabs then if anyone might want them.

He traded in his red Rover for a black MG sedan - you knew you were going somewhere when you pressed the accelerator in the MG!  It was fab. 

I'm confused on these cars. I think they are both owned by the Asian company now?
I will look them up to what they look like. You have my curiosity.

I'm confused on these cars. I think they are both owned by the Asian company now?
I will look them up to what they look like. You have my curiosity.

Yes I think you're right, except the models he bought were slightly older used models that I understood had still been made in the UK - he spoke about them as though they are the last of their kind.  He said the MG has the same engine as the Rover he had, but that they added some little piece of some sort to the MG which gives the (same) engine a bit of a boost.  I have no idea - but it definitely had more get up & go.

Forgot to update - my practical is booked for June 5th! 

Best of luck to you, Mrs R!!!  How many lessons will you have had by the time you take your test?

Best of luck to you, Mrs R!!!  How many lessons will you have had by the time you take your test?

Thank you. 

The plan is that I will have had 2 hours with the driving instructor I let go (which I tend not to count because it was an awful experience!), and then 20 hours with my driving instructor now.  However, depending on how we think I'm doing closer in to the test, if we need to fit in a few more - we will.  Maybe I'll pass, maybe not - will just give it a go & see how we get on.  My British husband had to take it 3 times before he passed.

(I have 25+ years' experience with driving in the US - on both manuals & automatics though.)

Thank you. 

The plan is that I will have had 2 hours with the driving instructor I let go (which I tend not to count because it was an awful experience!), and then 20 hours with my driving instructor now.  However, depending on how we think I'm doing closer in to the test, if we need to fit in a few more - we will.  Maybe I'll pass, maybe not - will just give it a go & see how we get on.  My British husband had to take it 3 times before he passed.

(I have 25+ years' experience with driving in the US - on both manuals & automatics though.)

Thanks for your reply.  I'm trying to estimate how many lessons I will need (possibly even more than you as I am a nervous driver--I quit after a meltdown a year ago and have just taken it up again).  I think you have a very sensible attitude toward the test...just doing the best you can and not worrying too much. 

I have almost 50 years driving experience in the US...don't find it helps much here...

I was really nervous about getting started, but this driving instructor has really helped me to relax about it all.  And if I start overthinking/worrying it, I'll get freaked out - so go with the flow, eh?