Italy + More

Hello everyone!

Last year, you guys helped me plan my first trip to London. My girlfriend and I still have every intention on relocating to the UK, it was a fantastic experience and we hope to be in London within a few years.

But, for the time being we are taking another trip to Europe in May. When we went to London last year we also did Edinburgh, Brussels, Amsterdam and Paris. I'm posting here to get as much advice as possible about our planed itinerary.

I just bought the plane tickets today (meant to do so a month ago, but things got a bit crazy). I got a great deal:

May 25th: Phoenix > NYC > Rome
June 23rd: Prague > Atlanta > Phoenix

Tickets were only $650 total, after all the taxes, fees, etc; a big relief from the $1150 last year.

Our planned cities:

Rome: 7 Days
Florence: 4 Days
Venice: 2 Days
Salzburg: 3 Days
Vienna: 3 Days
Prague: 4 Days
Unplanned: 4 Days

We are planning on buying the Eurail 3 country, 6 travel day pass. Does anyone have any input about this? Any suggestions on other cities in between, or more/less time in a specific city? We'd love to go to Zurich, but I'm not it'll be manageable in the timeframe. I was also thinking of Munich since it's on the way to Austria, but I cut it as well. Basically, everything is up for grabs beside the fact we have to begin in Rome and end in Prague.

We have to book hostels/hotels very soon since we're so late, so all information is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance for spending the time to read/write advice.

Here are the two Rome hostels we've found so far, anyone familiar?

http://www.hostelbookers.com/property/index.cfm?fuseaction=accommodation.search&isdynamic=1&strsearchby=destination&straccommodationtype=hostels&intdestinationid=1070&strdestination=rome&strdestinationparent=&intnights=7&intpeople=1&dtearrival=26/05/2009&intpropertyid=32232

http://www.hostelbookers.com/property/index.cfm?fuseaction=accommodation.search&isdynamic=1&strsearchby=destination&straccommodationtype=hostels&intdestinationid=1070&strdestination=rome&strdestinationparent=&intnights=7&intpeople=1&dtearrival=18/05/2009&fromPropertyNameSearch=0&intpropertyid=37456

Thanks again!

IMHO, 7 days is a bit much for Rome on a trip like this (unless one of those days was a side trip to Naples/Pompeii).  I might cut a day or two from Rome and spend a day or more in Tuscany - for example, add a day or two to Florence and do a day trip to San Gimignano (which is exquisite) and/or Siena.  I'd also lose a day from Salzburg, because it is a very small town and is easily doable in 2 days, and add a day or two to Venice, which again is incredible.  There's so much more to Venice besides the Rialto and San Marco, and a day exploring Burano, Torcello, and Murano is a day well worth it (Torcello and Burano are both really interesting).  We spent 5 days in Venice, and I still haven't seen everything I wanted to.  Plus you have to allow time for happily wandering the side canals looking for your destination.

Munich is very close via rail to Salzburg.  It is an interesting little city worth a visit - and you could spend a day just relaxing in the sunshine lounging around the English Gardens.  Alternatively, you could rent a car while in Salzburg and spend a day or two driving around in the Alps, visiting Fussen (where the famous Neuschwanstein castle is), Garmisch-Partenkirchen, and all the other little Alpen towns (which are simply postcard perfect).  It depends on whether you're looking for a country vacation or a city vacation.

Best of luck on your trip... make sure you schedule in some down time to rest from the hectic pace of museum and sightseeing hopping and just soak in the atmosphere.

I agree with exjerseygirl.  I'd cut the time in Rome and add it to Florence.  Another place I'd suggest is Bratislava, Slovakia.  Prague is hugely touristy and very expensive, but Bratislava is today what Prague was in the early nineties. 

I third that 7 days is too much in Rome.  You could do everything within 3 days.  I am a big fan of North Italy, and I would add in trips to Verona, Mantova, Sirmione, then maybe go up to Bergamo.  But Verona is really a spectacular city, not to far from Venice, and  you can get from there to Salzburg with only one change.

Vicky

Very interesting. I posted in another forum and a lot of people said to spend at least a week in Rome and that Venice got old very fast and could be done in 2 days. That forum was a very different demographic though, maybe they were more concerned about partying, etc. Our main priorities are history/culture/architecture/art/museums and lowest priorities are partying (we won't be doing any of this). Although we will be buying drinks everywhere we go, almost daily. I know that sounds contrary to not partying! lol! but, we found it was very nice to have a pint or two in our system midday to keep us on our feet.

Is Venice as expensive as they say it is? If it isn't, despite what people said in the other forum, I'd love to spend more than 2 days there. My girlfriend was opposed to 7 days in Rome as well, so maybe we definitely should cut a day or two based on what you guys are saying. I just thought it was counter intuitive to spend more time in Florence than Rome, but I'm not opposed to it. We considered Naples, but cut it out since it's south of our starting point and would force us to backtrack. One thing we're worried about is being too exhausted. Last year we did London, Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris and Edinburgh in 30 days, and 18 were in London, and we were pretty darn exhausted. So while my original plan for this trip was 10 cities, I've been cutting them down.

I put the long days in Salzburg because I figured there would be a lot of cool side-trip small villages around it?

I don't know, maybe we could do more cities and not be so exhausted, what do you all think? Were the cities we did last time just exhausting in general and these others less so? I heard Rome is the most walking of any city in Europe? Granted, our first week last trip was completely crazy and debilitating, and the only reason we survived was because of Victoria! I hope we don't run into any problems this time because she saved us!

We plan to pack extremely light this time. Are all these little cities you guys recommend reachable from the Eurail? Even though we love the big cities/energy we'd love to see a small town or two. I really do wish hostels didn't fill up everywhere so we didn't have to do "everything" in advance. Do you think we could wing it a little in the middle to hit these recommended cities (i.e. will they have places to stay last minute?) I know Brussells and Amsterdam did last year in July, because we literally last minute, 2 day noticed those ones.

Here's what my original plan was, let me know what you think:

Rome
Florence
Venice
Milan (quickly)
Zurich
Munich
Salzburg
Vienna
Prague
Berlin (although we have to end up in Prague now since I bought the tickets).

Thanks a lot for your posts and whatever else you guys add. Any advice on how to strategically plan out more cities without feeling rushed/exhausted is great, such as Eurail convenience or other ways of travel.

Agree with your decision to nix Zurich, Milan, and Berlin (although I like Berlin).  It's too much.

The challenge of staying "in the cities" is that you feel compelled everyday to go and see the myriad sights each place has to offer, like a checklist full of items that must be completed before you move on.  I think that this is a primary contributor to "travel fatigue" and you come back needing a vacation from your vacation.

IMHO, on a trip like yours, it's much more relaxing to base in a city for 5 days or more, doing the "city stuff" over a couple of days and then getting out to a day/side trip.  That way, you build the smallest bit of familiarity with a foreign place (a cafe you always pass on the way to the hotel, a bar you see on the main street), which I find to be very reassuring that I actually was somewhere.

I could write pages and pages about what is special in Rome, Florence, Tuscany, and Venice, but you can easily read about those things elsewhere.  People who say Venice can be done in 2 days can't possibly have seen everything there is to see in a city that was at one point the richest trading post in the Mediterranean.  Venice can be expensive, just like anywhere, but getting away from the Rialto-San Marco main drag will help your wallet immensely.  I think most people find Venice disproportionally expensive because they only move between the Rialto and San Marco and never discover neighborhoods like the charming one near the Ponte dei Tre Archi (my favorite bridge in Venice!).

I think you need to decide what kind of vacation you want: a checklist vacation, where you hit as many important tourist/historical sights in as many cities as possible; an immersion vacation, where you base somewhere and have the chance to explore the less-trampled side streets and become a temporary regular at a neighborhood cafe/bar; or somewhere in between.  What's more important to you: spending 3-4 hours wandering in an art museum or spending 3-4 hours a day simply getting from sight to sight?

I've done both myself.  When I was in college I did the three-month Eurail thing, where we spent 3 nights in a city, the 4th night traveling overnight on a train to another city, and I have lots of photos and had a great time.  But it was never a vacation - it was traveling.   Eurail passes work best and are most cost-effective for long train trips between large cities.  Short day trips are best paid for on their own (figure out what the per-trip cost of your Eurail pass is, then only use it for train trips that are nearly as much or indeed significantly more than that figure). 

It sounds to me like you have a lot more research to do about your individual tastes and interests versus what's on offer at the various destinations you're planning to hit.  For some 7 days in Rome is too little, and for some it's too much.

I echo what has been said so far.  I am not a big fan of Rome, to be honest, but have seen all the main sites.  When I travelled to Italy, I had originally budgeted 6-7 days in Rome and ended up cutting those plans short and leaving early.  I would easily cut 2 days from Rome and add to Venice.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Venice and Florence.  Venice by far is my favorite place on the planet (that I have been too so far).  I spent 5 days there and didn't scratch the surface.  Amazing.

Similarly love Florence.  Also spent 5 days and it was great.  Very laidback and a great atmosphere.  Gorgeous and great food.

Totally agree with cutting Milan.  Not a fan at all of the city.

I definitely preferred Florence to Rome, if you want art and culture, you can't go wrong in Florence.  Didn't care for Berlin, either, it struck me as sort of joyless. 

I used to live in Prague, so if you want some advice on how to maximize your time there, let me know 

Just have to reiterate....skip Milan entirely and go to Verona instead.  It won't be a major detour in terms of the train travel, and if you are lucky you could get in an opera at the Colosseum.  If not, do a bus tour, see Juliet's balcony, and just chill around.


Vicky

It's more "travel" than "vacation". We've pretty much accepted that we'll have to take a vacation from our vacation when we get home; that's how it was last time. We just wanted to make it a little less exhausting than last time (if possible - it probably isn't), and last time we had a "home base" in London where we could leave our main luggage when we went on side trips. To compensate for not having a place to keep our main luggage, we're packing extremely light.

Is it at all possible to "wing" the last two weeks and only book Rome/Florence/Venice hostels? Sounds scary, but I like the idea of being able to take side trips. If we book every hostel/hotel for the entire 28 nights, our side trips will have to be day trips, unless we want to spend extra money and waste money on the hostel we already booked for that night.

As far as immersion vs. checklist, it pretty much has to be checklist since we're only staying 28 nights and already definitely ending up in Prague, and won't want to skip Florence or Venice and will definitely have to see Rome. So the minimum would be 4 cities. I guess my main worry is getting bored with a city for staying too long, or missing a rare gem that's only miles away because we pre-planned everything and missed a great side trip. So that's sort of what I'm trying to deal with now.

Anyone have some experience they could share about Eurail? Best choice for us?

When we were in Paris, I got the sense there were some amazing areas we briefly passed, that would be great to get immersed in. We certainly experienced that in London, and I guess maybe the seven days in Rome was an attempt to possibly have that. But, I suppose seven is too few for that, and too much for "checklist traveling" so is a sort of limbo number of days. I suppose 5 days in Rome would be good? Has anyone stayed near the Termini? Half the people I talk to say "DON'T DO IT, DODGY AREA!" others say it is fantastic for logistics. We'd like some middleground between the two, safety + logistics. In London we had a 20 minute walk every day to the Camden tube, and it got pretty exhausting, but it was worth the safety/security of the awesome place (thanks Victoria!).

What it comes down to is either spending less time in Rome and Salzburg, etc and seeing more than six cities, probably around 9, or being less exhausted and staying in Rome/others longer and being more relaxed. I honestly cannot decide what would be better, but want to say that in the long run, more cities will be better. I know that during our last few days in London, we considered going to Windsor/Stonehenge/Bath, but were way too exhausted and didn't think we'd enjoy ourselves. Yet... when we got home and were rested, we regretted it.

Gah! It's so confusing and both myself and my girlfriend are VERY indecisive. So that's why everyone's opinions are very helpful! Thanks again for continued input!

We travelled for 2 weeks in Italy in the summer.  We flew into Bergamo and had booked a hostel room there.  Because we had tickets for the opera in Verona three days later we had a room booked there, and for the final night we had a room booked in Milan, as we had booked to see The Last Supper.  In between, we totally winged it.  We had some hotel and hostel choices written down and knew the possibilities for trains, buses and things to do, but yes, Italy is a really easy country to do on the fly.

I'd book for two or three days in Rome, no more.  if you like it you can stay longer but otherwise have a plan B so you can move on if you like.  I find Roma draining, it's quite humid and dusty, and I think you might regret it if you are tied there for too long.

Vicky

There are loads of things to do in the Salzburg area.  I would recommend the  Eisriesenwelt ice caves located about 40km south of Salzburg.  It's a pretty drive or you can take the train to Werfen.  I suggest you go early as it does get busy.

I also think a trip to one of the local salt mines is a fun and interesting experience.  I have been to one just across the boarder in Germany at Berchtesgarden.

If you do decide to visit Munich not far away is the Duchau concentration camp.  This of course would not suit everyone but I visited back in the 70's and have never ever forgotten.

Really, really need some input about the Eurail. I've scoured the site and looked at the maps, but you just never know. Will the Eurail take us just about everywhere we need to go? Is it the best bang for our buck or should we buy individual trains from cities? It's really looking like the following:

Rome: 5 Days
Florence: 5 Days
Venice: 4 Days
Zurich: 3 Days
Salzburg: 3 Days
Vienna: 4 Days
Prague: 4 Days

The Eurail for all this would be a total of 514 Euros, including the both of us...very expensive, but cheaper than individual trains?

I really like the idea of renting a car in Salzburg. And I absolutely, absolutely HAVE to see the ice caves...

Anyone stayed near the Termini? Is it worth the "sketchy" neighborhood to be closer to the station?

If I spend extra and buy a "hotel" instead of hostel, which city would be the best to do it in (aka best bang for buck)? Was thinking Salzburg??

Thanks, as always! Every single piece of input/opinion helps!

Really, really need some input about the Eurail. I've scoured the site and looked at the maps, but you just never know. Will the Eurail take us just about everywhere we need to go?

There is no "Eurail."  The Eurail pass is simply good for travel on the trains in each country the pass covers (each country generally has a national train service - like Amtrak (except much better) - and certain countries also have private train services).  You need to do your research on each country's national train service website and see how much tickets between your select destinations are.  Eurail pass holders usually still have to pay for reservations on certain trains, supplements for other (I think maybe the Pendolino in Italy falls in that category).  You'll have no problem traveling between major cities. 

Anyone stayed near the Termini? Is it worth the "sketchy" neighborhood to be closer to the station?

One person's sketchy is another person's home.  Train stations are generally not the nicest areas in any city, and I don't think that the area around Termini is the best to stay in, but if that's what you're budget allows, then so be it.