Starting points?

Hi everyone. Sorry if this is in the wrong place... I'm just looking for a bit of guidance here.

I am currently in a long distance relationship with my partner of two-plus years. It's becoming increasingly difficult/expensive/impractical to see each other as we've been doing -- a couple of weeks here and there every few months. We were initially thinking that she could come over here but without the option of a spousal visa, it's probably going to be too difficult. I graduated college in December and at this point, realistically, I have a bit more freedom in this whole moving around thing than she does.

I would really like to apply to graduate school in the UK, as that seems like the most likely way to get into the country. I've been looking into programs and schools and have found a couple that I like, but I'm a bit confused and overwhelmed by the actual process of doing this! I wouldn't expect to have enough money saved up to attend school until (fall) 2011, so right now I'm just trying to get a sense of where to start in all of this.

Out of curiosity, I've noticed in the Tier 4 visa application that they ask you to list the number of times you've been to the UK with relevant dates and purposes. I've seen my partner about six or seven times since February 2007 (four or five of these while I was doing a semester abroad in Holland), and I'm wondering if maybe they'll be suspicious? Or take issue with it?

How would I convert my GPA into the UK degree rankings? Is there an easy way?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me!

just curious - why isn't the spouse visa an option?

I would really like to apply to graduate school in the UK, as that seems like the most likely way to get into the country. I've been looking into programs and schools and have found a couple that I like, but I'm a bit confused and overwhelmed by the actual process of doing this! I wouldn't expect to have enough money saved up to attend school until (fall) 2011, so right now I'm just trying to get a sense of where to start in all of this.

Because of the high fees that international students have to pay, many students take out US student loans in order to finance their graduate studies, or if they have rich relatives/lots of savings, they fund themselves. On a student visa you would be allowed to work up to 20 hours per week, but unfortunately you have to show that you have all the funds (fees and living costs) available to you before you arrive in the UK.

In terms of the process of applying, you may find it's getting a bit late to apply for courses to start this fall (if that's what you were thinking of doing). Although most programmes don't have an application deadline date, I'd imagine that most courses will be filling up fast by now. When I did my UK masters degree, I applied for courses a year in advance to get my applications in as early as possible.

What you'll need to do though is contact the universities you're interested in applying for and fill out their application forms. When you have an offer of a place from one of them and have all your paperwork together (acceptance letter, proof of funds etc.) you fill out the Tier 4 visa application and apply for the visa. If you are considering starting a course this fall, then it's a good idea to apply for the visa early as the consulates get busy over the summer (around June time is good - you can apply 3 months before you want the visa to start and you can have the visa start date to be up to a month before your course starts).

Out of curiosity, I've noticed in the Tier 4 visa application that they ask you to list the number of times you've been to the UK with relevant dates and purposes. I've seen my partner about six or seven times since February 2007 (four or five of these while I was doing a semester abroad in Holland), and I'm wondering if maybe they'll be suspicious? Or take issue with it?

It probably won't matter too much on your application, but it's something you have to fill out anyway, so you don't really have a choice. I have been granted two US student visas and both times have had to list all my visits to the US. In total, I have spent about 6 months in the US as a visitor (6 visits between 1995 and 2006, for 3-5 weeks each time), 10 months as an exchange student and 8 months as a grad student, and it's never been a problem with US immigration.

How would I convert my GPA into the UK degree rankings? Is there an easy way?

You can probably get a NARIC or similar assessment of your degree results for a UK university application, but a basic comparison (from the UCL (University College London) admission requirements page) is:

UK degree result                   GPA
 1st (First Class)                   3.6-4.0
2:1 (Upper Second Class)       3.3-3.6
2:1 (Lower Second Class)       3.0-3.3

Most UK postgraduate programmes require at least a 2:1 undergraduate degree result to get in (so a GPA of at least 3.3).

First of all, it seems like you've done your research! Well done you!

I'm at the visa app stage for getting a Tier 4 visa, and while I can't speak much to your visits to the UK, this website might help you if you are interested at all in taking out loans to go to school. http://www.ncl.ac.uk/financial-support/international/usloans/apply.htm

How would I convert my GPA into the UK degree rankings? Is there an easy way?

Before I submitted my application, I wrote to the international department and asked them what I should do. She said to leave it blank or put in my US grades/GPA. I just put my US grades/GPA in the app, and sent them all of my transcripts. When I did that, I alerted the international department, and they included my email with my application that explained my grades in more detail. That's all it took, and I was accepted, no problem.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

just curious - why isn't the spouse visa an option?

Sorry, I should have clarified that I live in the US (Boston at the moment, but I'm moving back home to New York at the end of this month), and as I'm in a same-sex relationship, she wouldn't be able to come over here on a spousal visa. I'm not even sure how a spousal visa would work for me over there, but it's not something either of us would really want to do at present! Uprooting your life and being married all at once is a lot to deal with!

Because of the high fees that international students have to pay, many students take out US student loans in order to finance their graduate studies, or if they have rich relatives/lots of savings, they fund themselves.

I realize that, ultimately, it's going to be pretty much impossible for me to escape all of this without loans, but I'm trying to save up as much as humanly possible before I go. I'm moving home to save on rent/bills, and I've set my "goal" date far enough in advance that I'd like to think I could save up at least a sizable portion of what's needed before I go.

In terms of the process of applying, you may find it's getting a bit late to apply for courses to start this fall (if that's what you were thinking of doing). Although most programmes don't have an application deadline date, I'd imagine that most courses will be filling up fast by now. When I did my UK masters degree, I applied for courses a year in advance to get my applications in as early as possible.

I'm not planning to apply for school until 2011, because I really need to be on my feet before I do this. I didn't realize that schools don't have deadlines over there -- that's good to know, thank you!

And thank you for the general timeline. It helps a lot in terms of planning this. I've been trying to read all of the official documents but it's much easier to understand when it's all written out normally. Thank you!

It probably won't matter too much on your application, but it's something you have to fill out anyway, so you don't really have a choice. I have been granted two US student visas and both times have had to list all my visits to the US. In total, I have spent about 6 months in the US as a visitor (6 visits between 1995 and 2006, for 3-5 weeks each time), 10 months as an exchange student and 8 months as a grad student, and it's never been a problem with US immigration.

This is good to know! I've just been concerned about this because I've recently encountered a few issues with the passport check people at immigration. They were a bit suspicious of me because I had spent so many long weekends (Thursday or Friday to Sunday) in England in 2007 and then had come over for a couple of extended trips since.

UK degree result                   GPA
 1st (First Class)                   3.6-4.0
2:1 (Upper Second Class)       3.3-3.6
2:1 (Lower Second Class)       3.0-3.3

Most UK postgraduate programmes require at least a 2:1 undergraduate degree result to get in (so a GPA of at least 3.3).

Hmm... I had a 3.17 cumulative GPA. Surely I won't be rejected for 0.13 of a point? I have read in other places that the money schools/the government makes off of international students makes it a bit easier to be accepted, but I'm not entirely sure if that's true!

First of all, it seems like you've done your research! Well done you!

I'm at the visa app stage for getting a Tier 4 visa, and while I can't speak much to your visits to the UK, this website might help you if you are interested at all in taking out loans to go to school. newcomer link: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/financial-support/international/usloans/apply.htm [nonactive]

Before I submitted my application, I wrote to the international department and asked them what I should do. She said to leave it blank or put in my US grades/GPA. I just put my US grades/GPA in the app, and sent them all of my transcripts. When I did that, I alerted the international department, and they included my email with my application that explained my grades in more detail. That's all it took, and I was accepted, no problem.

Thank you for the link to the loan stuff; I definitely don't think I'll be able to raise the ~£10,000 needed for maintenance and tuition.

I would definitely include a transcript of my grades. I think it would probably work in my favor, rather than just including my converted GPA?

This is good to know! I've just been concerned about this because I've recently encountered a few issues with the passport check people at immigration. They were a bit suspicious of me because I had spent so many long weekends (Thursday or Friday to Sunday) in England in 2007 and then had come over for a couple of extended trips since.

Have you been honest with immigration, that you've been there visiting your girlfriend?

Have you been honest with immigration, that you've been there visiting your girlfriend?

I told them I was visiting a friend, and gave them all of the right details, but I never specified that she was my girlfriend.

I'm not even sure how a spousal visa would work for me over there, but it's not something either of us would really want to do at present! Uprooting your life and being married all at once is a lot to deal with!

Just as information, you can get a civil partnership visa for the UK if you decide to go that route (pretty much the same as a spouse visa, just for same sex partners), but yeah, that involves being legally bound like marriage.  If you're not ready for that yet, fair enough!  I came over initially on a student visa myself before marrying my British husband so I totally get it   But I just wanted to let you know that you do have that option when it comes to UK immigration.

I didn't realize that schools don't have deadlines over there -- that's good to know, thank you!

Actually it's not a universal rule for UK schools. Undergraduate programmes have definite application deadlines (October 15th of the year before you start for Medicine/Veterinary Science/Dentistry and Oxford/Cambridge applications, January 15th for all other applications), but postgraduate ones are more flexible and the schools themselves will define their own deadlines (or lack thereof). Undergraduate courses have much more competition for places (for example, each year, Bristol University has 40,000 undergrad applicants for only 3,300 available places!), but less people are usually applying for postgraduate courses compared to the number of places available - so applications are accepted most of the year... but the later you apply, the more chance they won't have any spaces left.

Hmm... I had a 3.17 cumulative GPA. Surely I won't be rejected for 0.13 of a point? I have read in other places that the money schools/the government makes off of international students makes it a bit easier to be accepted, but I'm not entirely sure if that's true!

I don't know how much your GPA will affect your chances - it's probably worth contacting the schools you are interested in to find out their policy on grades for admission. You are right in that UK universities do like international students because of the money they bring in so you may have no problems with getting an offer... but I don't know for sure.

Thank you for the link to the loan stuff; I definitely don't think I'll be able to raise the ~£10,000 needed for maintenance and tuition.

Just a note - the tuition alone will probably be about £10,000 and then you're gonna need between £5,400 and £7,400 for maintenance/living costs for one year (depending on if your in London or outside of London), so you'd be looking at needing around £17,000 in available funds for the visa (give or take, depending on actual tuition/funds needed).

Just a note - the tuition alone will probably be about £10,000 and then you're gonna need between £5,400 and £7,400 for maintenance/living costs for one year (depending on if your in London or outside of London), so you'd be looking at needing around £17,000 in available funds for the visa (give or take, depending on actual tuition/funds needed).

Good point. I need $32,000 total for my VISA.

Just as information, you can get a civil partnership visa for the UK if you decide to go that route (pretty much the same as a spouse visa, just for same sex partners), but yeah, that involves being legally bound like marriage.  If you're not ready for that yet, fair enough!  I came over initially on a student visa myself before marrying my British husband so I totally get it   But I just wanted to let you know that you do have that option when it comes to UK immigration.

With civil partnership visas, don't you have to show that you've been living together for X amount of years (2 years?) before your visa application would be accepted? Or, could I (theoretically) go over to England on a vacation-type visit to see my girlfriend and get married? If someone actually did do that, could the British government send them back to wherever they came from? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of a civil union in the first place? I'm really just curious here... Definitely not ready for marriage!


Thanks, ksand24, for the further clarification regarding the admissions deadlines. I am definitely going to contact the schools I'm interested in to ask them about admissions deadlines and GPA stuff. I really hope they don't turn me down for 0.13 of a point. I do find it difficult to believe that something like that would be an issue when I'd be essentially doubling their money with my international tuition, but it's still made me a bit nervous!

Just a note - the tuition alone will probably be about £10,000 and then you're gonna need between £5,400 and £7,400 for maintenance/living costs for one year (depending on if your in London or outside of London), so you'd be looking at needing around £17,000 in available funds for the visa (give or take, depending on actual tuition/funds needed).

I'm definitely planning on living outside of London. I don't think I could afford day-to-day living in London, as much as I liked being there, and my girlfriend is not a fan of massive cities, so that's pretty much out. So I am shooting for the £5,400 in maintenance, at least. And I was planning on going part-time, just to cut down on the immediate cost and (legally) elongate my stay. The places I've looked into have had the part-time tuitions halved, so around £5,000 for a year.

Would I need the full tuition regardless, or just the first year's? I thought I read that you only needed the first year's tuition up front, but I could be wrong.

Also, this is probably a stupid question, but if I do go part-time, is my visa good for the entire duration of my study period, or will I have to reapply? Would the maintenance fees be any different, or do I just need nine months' worth of money? I've read that I could work full-time during school holidays, but would that include the summer if I was staying for two years?

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to answer my questions.

With civil partnership visas, don't you have to show that you've been living together for X amount of years (2 years?) before your visa application would be accepted?

The living together for 2 years requirement is only for unmarried partnership visas, which are different to civil partnership visas. Unmarried partners can be same-sex or opposite-sex, who do not intend to get married, but in order to qualify for the visa you need to have been living together in 'a relationship akin to marriage' for at least 2 years (i.e. you legally live in the same country, have bills going to the same address, both have bank accounts etc.) - many people who apply for the unmarried partnership visa have already been in the UK on a different visa first (i.e. student visa, work visa) in order to accumulate the 2 years of living together.

Or, could I (theoretically) go over to England on a vacation-type visit to see my girlfriend and get married? If someone actually did do that, could the British government send them back to wherever they came from? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of a civil union in the first place? I'm really just curious here... Definitely not ready for marriage!

No, you cannot get married as a visitor on vacation in the UK - you need a valid visa first (well, okay technically you can get a marriage visit visa, but they are for people not intending to live in the UK after the wedding and they have to return to the US within the visa expiry date - 6 months). For heterosexual couples this is a fiance visa (if they wish to marry in the UK), followed by an FLR(M) visa upon marriage or a spousal visa directly (if they marry in the US first). For same-sex couples, the visa needed is either the civil partnership visa (equivalent to spousal visa) or the proposed civil partnership visa (equivalent to fiance visa).

From the visa guidance (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/infs/inf4husbandswivespartners):

How do I qualify to join my husband, wife or civil partner in the UK?
You must show that:

    * you are legally married to each other or are in a civil partnership recognised in the UK
    * your husband, wife or civil partner is present and settled in the UK (see the next section)
    * you both intend to live together permanently as husband and wife or as civil partners
    * you have met each other before
    * you can support yourselves and any dependants without any help from public funds
    * you have suitable accommodation, which is owned or lived in only by you and your household, and where you and your dependants can live without any help from public funds
    * your husband, wife or civil partner is not under 21, and
    * you are not under 21.

How do I qualify to join my fiancé, fiancée or proposed civil partner in the UK?
You must show that:

    * you plan to marry or register a civil partnership within a reasonable time (usually six months)
    * you plan to live together permanently after you are married or have registered a civil partnership
    * you have met each other before
    * there is somewhere for you and your dependants to live until you get married or register a civil partnership, and you will be able to live without help from public funds, and
    * you and your dependants can be supported without working or claiming any help from public funds.

You will be allowed to stay in the UK for six months but without permission to work. When you are married or have registered a civil partnership, you can apply to the UK Border Agency for a two-year extension to your visa.  When you do this you will be required to pay a non-refundable fee and provide certain documents as specified on the UK Border Agency website: Form FLR (M) and guidance notes.  If your application is granted you will be allowed to work. Before the end of your probationary two years Further Leave to Remain (FLR) you will need to apply to the UK Border Agency for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) in the UK. When you do this you will be required to pay a further non-refundable fee and provide more documents as specified on the UK Border Agency website: Form SET (M) and guidance notes. Before we can give you permission to stay in the UK permanently, you will need to pass the 'Life in the UK' test.

Thanks, ksand24, for the further clarification regarding the admissions deadlines. I am definitely going to contact the schools I'm interested in to ask them about admissions deadlines and GPA stuff. I really hope they don't turn me down for 0.13 of a point. I do find it difficult to believe that something like that would be an issue when I'd be essentially doubling their money with my international tuition, but it's still made me a bit nervous!

I would imagine they'll want to look at your transcripts and individual class grades to determine whether to take you or not. GPA basically means nothing to UK universities in terms of how good a student is, because we don't have cumulative GPA grades in the UK (and also grade boundaries are lower - you only need an average of 70% in the UK to get a First class honours, whereas you need much more than a 70% average in the US to get a 4.0 GPA!). Many postgrad courses will require a 2:1 or higher to get in, but the masters I did at Bristol has actually accepted a couple of UK students with only a 2:2 degree recently, so there may be some flexibility.

And I was planning on going part-time, just to cut down on the immediate cost and (legally) elongate my stay. The places I've looked into have had the part-time tuitions halved, so around £5,000 for a year.

I don't think you can get a visa for part-time study - it has to be full-time in order to get a valid student visa, so unfortunately you will be stuck paying the £10,000 a year fees, unless you are in the UK on a different visa (i.e. civil partnership).

Would I need the full tuition regardless, or just the first year's? I thought I read that you only needed the first year's tuition up front, but I could be wrong.

I thought you needed the full tuition for the entire programme, but the rules have changed recently (Tier 4 was introduced only a month ago) and so I'm not sure anymore. Looking at the visa guidelines on the UKBA website (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/studyingintheuk/), it seems you now only need the amount for the first 9 months of study (which will still be about £15,000-£16,000 anyway)

Also, this is probably a stupid question, but if I do go part-time, is my visa good for the entire duration of my study period, or will I have to reapply? Would the maintenance fees be any different, or do I just need nine months' worth of money?

I'm not sure what happens after the first 9 months. I don't think you will have to reapply, but again I don't know for definite with the new rules.
 

I've read that I could work full-time during school holidays, but would that include the summer if I was staying for two years?

Yes, you can work up to 20 hours per week during term-time and full-time in the holidays, but you do have to check that your programme isn't considered 'in session' during the summer. Many postgrad courses run for a full 12 months (September to September) and so even if you are not taking classes in the summer, you may still be considered a full-time student and expected to be working on a thesis or similar during the summer - so you will only be legally allowed to work 20 hours a week in this case.