What Is The Best Course Of Action

While on holiday, my husband Jeff applied for jobs as manager of furniture stores.  He got two companies that seemed quite interested in him working for them and one wanted to know if he could start training classes in two weeks, but he had to decline as we had to go back home the next day.  He told them upfront that he is an American there on holiday and did not have a work permit.

He does have store management experience for 4 years and has been in furniture sales for 2 years.  What worries me is the correct course of action we should take. 

I know he may have an edge over some people, but I am sure there are probably qualified managers all over the place in the UK who could take the same job.  I would hate to be stranded over there and told we cannot get jobs once we try to settle down.

Should we take our chances and move over there and start looking for a job while he can have a better opportunity for face to face contact and if given a serious offer he can jump on?

Should we just wait until he gets hired by a company and then move?

Would it help if we offered to do some of the red tape paperwork on behalf of the company willing to hire him?

If we go to move without have a job lined up, what do we say to immigration officials while trying to come into the country with one way airline tickets?  Is that even something they allow?

Would it help matters if I am self-employed and told them I plan to conduct my business in the UK?  I have my own web site and design web sites for other and am in the process of becoming A+ certified in fixing computers (about 6 months more of study to go) as well as learning computer software programming.  I am also working on 2 novels that are halfway finished and would like to stay in the UK to get it done.

Even if my husband does not find a job and we could survive from my business alone, would the UK put up with us as visitors to their countries or hopefuls to become UK citizens?

Any suggestions or advice would be really appreciated.

myti: please read this carefully!!

You cannot just move over here and hope to find a job. If you showed up at the airport and told Immigration that's what you intended to do, you would be put on the first plane back home. If you didn't tell Immigration what you intended to do, you would be in complete violation of you Visitors visa and you would inevitably be found out.

It is extremely hard to get work visas in the UK if you are not a UK or EU citizen. Extremely hard. You need to spend some time on the visas and immigration section of this forum and familiarize yourself with the different types of visas and permits as well as the many links others have posted there.

To be brutally honest, I think it highly unlikely that as a sales manager, your husband will get any kind of work visa. I don't think your line of work is in high demand either unfortuantely. Generally Americans only get work here if their company transfers them here. Most of the people on this site are spouses of British citizens, work for US companies over here, or have highly specialized skills the UK is looking for.

It is not possible to simply pick up and go work in the UK. Immigration policies here are strict and highly enforced.

If you have Uk relatives, you might have some other options. Sorry to be so negative, but from what you've posted, I think you may have no idea of the seriousness of what you are attempting to do.

Thank you for your brutal honesty.  I would rather be told the truth flat out so I know how to prepare.

Not to keep on a negativei theme, but I should add that even if a UK company wants to hire you or your husband, it still is very hard for them to legally make it happen. They have to prove there is no one else in the UK who can do the job, that they've advertised for the postition, and the legal fees are quite high. I know there are some other posts about this on this forum.

There are people who have visited this site with 'high powered' jobs in finance, marketing and other things who could not get transfers within their company or get UK companies to hire them because of the red tape.

I understand your desire to be here (believe me) but you have got to get as much info as you can. One thing you might consider is a student visa. The problem there is that, first of all, you have to pay tuition and actually go to school, but also, though I believe your family could come with you, the person on the student visa would only be able to work 20 hours a  week which is not enough to support a family of 4 in the UK unless you have lots of savings.

Please do some more reading and then see if you have any more specific questions. Good luck!

Thanks again.  The only thing I could even remotely come up with as sort of a tie with relatives to the UK is the fact that my father is a Jamaican citizen {was a UK colony until the mid-60s} and my grandmother was born in Canada and my great-grandmother was from Scotland.  I don't know if that counts as much.

Hiya hon.

The best course of action is a legal one. I totally do not recommend violating immigration laws. As Balmerhon said above, the UK is extremely strict about them.

I don't know much about work visas other than they're difficult to obtain, but not impossible. I believe there are a few people on the forum who have got them. My recommendation is to contact an immigration lawyer and get some sound legal advice.

"They have to prove there is no one else in the UK who can do the job, that they've advertised for the postition, and the legal fees are quite high."

Totally right. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this but I think it must be proven that thru-out the ENTIRE   EU {not only the UK} no one else can do the job you applied for. That just increases the odds enormously of a non EU/UK citizen finding a job in Britain.

Good luck...

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this but I think it must be proven that thru-out the ENTIRE   EU {not only the UK} no one else can do the job you applied for. That just increases the odds enormously of a non EU/UK citizen finding a job in Britain

Yep, I'm pretty sure this is the case.

He got two companies that seemed quite interested in him working for them and one wanted to know if he could start training classes in two weeks, but he had to decline as we had to go back home the next day.

Agreed with everything else that's been said here; but it's important to find out why those companies were interested.  If there's an 'ace in the hole' that can qualify your husband, it's helpful to know what it is.  Did they think his experience in the US might be helpful in negotiating with American suppliers?  Does he have a unique, i.e., niche, knowledge of furnature that could only be gained in the US?  Would he be useful in targeting American clients living the UK?  Are they planning an expansion into the US where it would be helpful to have Americans already on board? 

It's to say that it's not necessarily a lost cause if there's something he's got that can be construed as a show-stopper for EU/UK candidates.   People are have gotten work permits on grounds less tenuous than those I have mentioned. 

Agreed with everything else that's been said here; but it's important to find out why those companies were interested.  If there's an 'ace in the hole' that can qualify your husband, it's helpful to know what it is.  Did they think his experience in the US might be helpful in negotiating with American suppliers?  Does he have a unique, i.e., niche, knowledge of furnature that could only be gained in the US?  Would he be useful in targeting American clients living the UK?  Are they planning an expansion into the US where it would be helpful to have Americans already on board? 

It's to say that it's not necessarily a lost cause if there's something he's got that can be construed as a show-stopper for EU/UK candidates.   People are have gotten work permits on grounds less tenuous than those I have mentioned. 

Thanks, you have given me new angles to think about.  I think they were mostly impressed with his knowlege of furniture construction and the many different companies and brands and were equally impressed with his American accent.

I'm not giving up on the different angles, however, I am beginning to think it may be best to save up more money to become regular visitors to the UK while I set up an established track record as a writer.

For instance, if I saved up enough money to support our family's needs for one year without having to rely on a job and during the year I will continue to earn my income via the Internet to save ahead for the next year's living expenses.  I should also be able to become a published author during this time [as I am really close to finishing.] I apply with the family for a vacation visa for 6 months at a time and return to the US every 6 months to visit the family for a week then come back to the UK for another 6 month vacation. 

After doing this for up to 4 years, perhaps it would be easier to apply for a citizenship.

Does anyone see a flaw in this plan that isn't yet apparant to me?  I really do appreciate brutal honesty.

You might want to check out the "How long can I stay on a Visitor's Visa?" thread a few down from this one, which addresses the "Can I stay for six months, then leave for a week" type of question. 

I seem to recall that there are ways for artists and writers to stay longer, though, under a different type of visa.  You should check the IND website about that, because if you have, for example, a letter from your publisher saying you have a contract for a book set in the UK you may be able to "settle" for the time it takes to write the book.  Would your current publisher be willing to provide such a letter?

I'm not positive, but I don't think that 4 years of coming in and out for 6 month periods can lead to citizenship.

I apply with the family for a vacation visa for 6 months at a time and return to the US every 6 months to visit the family for a week then come back to the UK for another 6 month vacation. 

After doing this for up to 4 years, perhaps it would be easier to apply for a citizenship.

Does anyone see a flaw in this plan that isn't yet apparant to me?  I really do appreciate brutal honesty.

The problem with this is that after a few times going in and out of the country, Immigration will begin to question you heavily about the amount of time you're spending in the country.  They are under no obligation to provide you entry into the country and can and will deny you entry if they are simply suspicious of you doing something illegal.  I agree with SAF.  There's a special visa for artists & writers that might be the best way for you to go.

After doing this for up to 4 years, perhaps it would be easier to apply for a citizenship.

I agree with what's been posted. I'm pretty sure that repeated visits will not help an immigration case.

You have to understand. The way things stand with UK immigration right now, they don't really want you here - except as a visitor and even then only for 6 months maximum per year. That's a bit of a harsh way to put it, but in essence true. If you have valid cause to be here, there are very precise visas for that. Just wanting to be here and visiting here extensivley are not part of the equation.

There was a story about a family in Scotland who thought they could *live* there by just going in and out of the country in 6 month intervals.  The reason there was a story about them was because they were under threat of deportation.  Not sure what happened in the end, but the UK would have every right to deport them because they didn't follow the rules.