Should Americans be allowed to vote in the UK

One of the points of Lord Goldsmith's white paper on citizenship last year concerned voting rights in the UK. Extending the right for Commonwealth citizens to vote in all UK elections and referenda, he argued, dilutes the idea of citizenship. Besides, he points out, apart from a few Commonwealth realms in the Caribbean, most of the other countries don't return the favour to Brits resident there!

I would imagine that within ten years or so, Commonwealth citizens will probably lose their right to vote in the UK. There might be some grandfathering in for those already here, but I wouldn't be surprised if the franchise were eventually restricted to UK and other EU citizens, but no one else. Given the current political climate, I think the momentum is heading in the direction of restricting the right to vote, not enlarging it.

Just my guess. I'm definitely no expert.

Good post.

Because you might go back one day? I lived in New Zealand for ten years and I came back. I actually didn't vote in UK elections during that time but I was allowed to, and rightly so, as the results of those elections affected me on my return.

The tax thing is also a red herring - just because you're not living in a particular country doesn't mean you're not being taxed there. Americans living abroad still have to file tax returns & pay tax if they earn above a certain amount.

I don't think saying you may come back so you deserve a vote is really a valid point. When you don't live in that country and are no longer taking any part in it's affairs you shouldn't be able to vote.

As for tax if you cease to become a British citizen you no longer pay taxes to the UK, also it's a very valid point. Those who pay their taxes have the right to decide on how their money is spent.

However, this is just my personal opinion and is neither right or wrong, it's just my take on the situation.

My point is that I don't believe just being a citizen necessarily grants you the knowledge or understanding to vote.

 

No arguments on knowledge and understanding, but regardless, you still have the right by virtue of your citizenship.

 

No arguments on knowledge and understanding, but regardless, you still have the right by virtue of your citizenship.

Agreed.  I was merely pointing out what I didn't agree with in Lee's statement.

Agreed.  I was merely pointing out what I didn't agree with in Lee's statement.

Yup. And I was agreeing with you.

My husband and I are both UK citizens and DH is constantly reading about what is going on in the UK. He even wrote to our last council when we moved back to the states to provide them with our change of address so we could vote. I may not vote in the future but I know that he certainly will.

On the flip side, when we were living in the UK, I definitely voted in the US election. Just because I wasn't living there didn't mean that I wasn't paying attention to what was going on. It was very important for me to vote even though I was living abroad.

As for tax if you cease to become a British citizen you no longer pay taxes to the UK, also it's a very valid point. Those who pay their taxes have the right to decide on how their money is spent.

But most people who leave don't forfeit their citizenship.  And if your argument is that people who don't have "knowledge or understanding" of politics shouldn't vote, well, that eliminates a hefty portion of the voting public in both countries.  

I no longer live in the US, but that doesn't mean that I have ceased to take part in its affairs.  I still read the New York Times online, as I have for years, and keep up-to-date on what is happening in the US as well as the rest of the world.  Also, I try to act as a sort of unofficial ambassador, since in my job I meet people of many nationalities, and it's a great opportunity to show them that Americans don't necessarily fit their stereotypes.  Leaving the US has changed me, but it hasn't made me less American, and I will continue to vote from overseas.  I consider it my right and privilege, regardless of how long I live in the UK or whether I get British citizenship someday.  

But most people who leave don't forfeit their citizenship.  And if your argument is that people who don't have "knowledge or understanding" of politics shouldn't vote, well, that eliminates a hefty portion of the voting public in both countries.  

I no longer live in the US, but that doesn't mean that I have ceased to take part in its affairs.  I still read the New York Times on line, as I have for years, and keep up-to-date on what is happening in the US as well as the rest of the world.  Also, I try to act as a sort of unofficial ambassador, since in my job I meet people of many nationalities, and it's a great opportunity to show them that Americans don't necessarily fit their stereotypes.  Leaving the US has changed me, but it hasn't made me less American, and I will continue to vote from overseas.  I consider it my right and privilege, regardless of how long I live in the UK or whether I get British citizenship someday.  

Have you got some stats to backup the assertion most don't?

Also it's certainly not my argument that knowledge or understanding entitles one to vote but if you don't live in the country you most certainly do lose the thread about whats happening and no amount of reading articles on line or newspapers is going to fix that. Theres not enough hours in the day to keep up with everything thats happening and continue with your life abroad.

If you renounce your country then for me you lose the right to vote since you no longer live there and take no part in it's affairs.

Agreed.  I was merely pointing out what I didn't agree with in Lee's statement.

I think you misread my post and took it out of context.

I was referring to people working in the UK but not from the UK nor have achieved citizenship.

Have you got some stats to backup the assertion most don't?

Also it's certainly not my argument that knowledge or understanding entitles one to vote but if you don't live in the country you most certainly do lose the thread about whats happening and no amount of reading articles on line or newspapers is going to fix that. Theres not enough hours in the day to keep up with everything thats happening and continue with your life abroad.

If you renounce your country then for me you lose the right to vote since you no longer live there and take no part in it's affairs.

Have you got stats to back up your assertion that people living abroad "lose the thread" and are less connected than people who live in a country?  And who said anything about renouncing anything?  Just because someone goes to live in another country that doesn't mean they've renounced their native one.  Frankly, I think it's a bit cheeky of you to come on to a forum for expats and tell us that by moving we've cut all vital ties to our native country and should therefore lose the right to vote there.  

Nope, no, never.
If you want to vote then become a brit.

haven't read all the comments but what a weird post. I haven't renounced my American citizenship nor do I ever plan to.  I have and will continue to vote in any American election I am eligible to vote in. I have Portuguese citizenship and have the right to vote in Portuguese elections even though I have never lived there. It is my right as a Portuguese citizen.  I am going to become a British citizen when I am eligible. Do I plan on voting if I am eligible? HELL YA!  Don't see why any of this is an issue. Sounds like you're trying to stir a pot that doesn't need stirring.

On whether Americans should vote in the UK...I'm going to have to go with no, even if they have ILR.  And this is coming from someone who was a permanent resident in the US for a very long time and wasn't allowed to vote until I finally got citizenship.  I just really believe that one of the privileges of citizenship of a certain country should be the right to vote.  And on that note, I think I would prefer it if Commonwealth citizens didn't have the right to vote (despite the fact that I'm a Commonwealth citizen myself so I actually can vote here despite not being British. I feel uncomfortable with it, though, so I choose not to vote until I naturalize here.)  

I think it's absolutely fine for citizens living abroad to vote in their home countries, though.  The fundamental rights of citizenship (namely, being able to live/work in the country without restriction & being able to vote in the affairs of your country) should not be diluted based on where you live.

Have you got some stats to backup the assertion most don't?

Also it's certainly not my argument that knowledge or understanding entitles one to vote but if you don't live in the country you most certainly do lose the thread about whats happening and no amount of reading articles on line or newspapers is going to fix that. Theres not enough hours in the day to keep up with everything thats happening and continue with your life abroad.

If you renounce your country then for me you lose the right to vote since you no longer live there and take no part in it's affairs.

I don't understand why you're persisting with the notion that British citzens who leave the UK are renouncing their citizenship and rejecting the UK. What if you marry someone from abroad and go to live in another country for that reason, but you retain strong ties here because your parents, siblings and friends are here? What if you've moved to the other country for a couple of years to be near your spouse's ailing grandmother, and intend to return to live here? Should people in these situations be disenfranchised?  I just don't think you've thought this argument through. There are gazillions of British expats all over the world who would be horrified at your suggestion.

Have you got some stats to backup the assertion most don't?-

Renouncing citizenship is a pretty big deal - you have to officially renounce to the UK government and it costs about £400 to do so, so I doubt many people do it. Plus, you can't give it up unless you also hold or are eligible for another country's citizenship because otherwise you won't hold citizenship of any country and won't even be allowed a passport (which wouldn't exactly help if you're trying to move abroad!). Also, unless you plan never to set foot in the UK again for the rest of your life or you must renounce UK citizenship in order to gain citizenship of another country, then what's the point of doing it? If you give up your UK citizenship, you can never again live in the UK without a visa, in fact you cannot even visit without a visa, so why give up your right to return to the UK again in the future?

If you renounce your country then for me you lose the right to vote since you no longer live there and take no part in it's affairs.

If you've cut all ties with the UK and have given up your citizenship, then fair enough, but I really doubt that many people actually to renounce unless they have to.

My aunt has been living in the US for 31 years and she's never renounced her UK citizenship. She didn't gain US citizenship for 23 years (2001) and so she was unable to vote in the US elections for most of the time she was living in the US and was only able to vote in UK elections. If she had wished to renounce citizenship, then she would not have been allowed to do do until 2001, when she became a US citizen too.