Ms vs. Miss vs. Mrs

[x-posted to a wedding plan comm, but I need all the input I can get!]

I'm working on my spreadsheet-o-doom for the invites, and I have it up on google docs so Tim could add people, and I made the mistake of sending it off to my mom for her to double check all the relative's addresses.

She's gone through and changed every single instance of Ms to Miss. She changed divorced people I had labeled as Ms. FirstName MarriedLast Name (if they didn't change it post-divorce) to Mrs. FirstName MarriedLastName. She changed widows from Mrs. FirstName LastName to Mrs. DeceasedHusbandFirstName LastName. She even has my 77-yr-old single aunt listed as "Miss"...and she claims she did this all in the name of proper etiquette.

So please enlighten me. When do you switch from Miss to Ms? I thought Ms was used if you are single and over 18, but apparently my mom thinks otherwise. She says Ms is a made-up word used by women who don't want someone to know if they are married. I've been checking the "Ms" box on applications since I was 25, because I always thought "Miss" was for little girls. Of course, I also wasn't sure I'd ever get married when I was 25, so I suppose it also was an independent woman kind of thing. I had all of my unmarried friends down as Ms.

Also, is the custom different in the UK?  I noticed when I signed up for things (like my phone) the person filling in the form automatically listed me as Ms, and I've seen mail addressed to Tim's mum as "Ms". 

Hi Becca,
I don't know the ettiquette on it. But I am like you I use Miss for the little girls and MS. for the single ladies. When I did my wedding invitations I went by what last name they were using. Jason's mother is divorced from his father but still kept her married name so hers was addressed as Mrs. Margaret Byrne. If it was a couple that are married it would be Mr and Mrs Bob Smith. If it was a single female and her boyfriend I addressed it Ms. Jane Smith and Mr. Joe Brown.
So that is how I handled it. I only kept Miss for my two nieces who are 5 and 6 and were the flower girls. Their Invite and name card was filled out as Miss

I hope this helps

Your mother is right in her use of the traditional forms of address for ladies, in particular the forms for divorcees and widows. "Miss" is also commonly used in the UK to indicate an unmarried woman, no matter how old she is.

Your mother is technically correct, I think, but there is a question, especially with the divorced women, because I think Ms. is often used now to ignore whether someone is married or not.  AFAIK, it was created so there was a neutral term (as "Mr" is) for women so that a woman wouldn't have to be either "unmarried" (Miss) or "married" (Mrs.).
I know a few of my divorced friends who kept their married name (often to keep it the same as the kids) but went to Ms. as they were no longer married.

So, sure, it might be proper etiquette, but it could also be disconcerting to some.

Weddings are tough. Good luck.  Just as a bit of personal advice, if you can't see how this would upset anyone, and your mom really feels it is important, let it slide.  That way you can get your way on other things.

I can't speak for proper etiquette in the US, but in the UK, single women seem to be called Miss (on post and in formal address, like at the bank, etc.) until they are married, and then they're called Mrs - Ms, which I preferred as a single woman in my 20s and still prefer now, especially in professional correspondence, seems to be reserved for divorced women.  I hated being referred to as Miss MaidenLastname before I married, and I hate being referred to as Mrs MarriedLastname now that I am married.  I love my husband, but I am more than just his appendage!

If it were me, and I were paying for my own wedding (as DH and I did), I would address the envelopes exactly how I felt comfortable - whether that was using Ms or otherwise.  We had over 250 people on our guest list (our wedding was much smaller - about 95 - but there were a LOT of family and friends who expected invites even though we knew they wouldn't be attending) and we omitted forms of address altogether and just used Firstname and Firstname Lastname (or Firstname Lastname & Firstname Lastname in case of couples with different lastnames) on our invites, and as far as I know no-one (even the proper Southern ladies) was offended!  It really all just depends, like so many other aspects of wedding planning, on how much you care about sticking to formal etiquette.

I like what wikipedia has to say about it - Ms is ALWAYS correct unless you know what that particular female's preferred title is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms.

Although I use Mrs, I'd never be upset if someone referred to me as Ms - or even Miss - just as long as they refer to me! 

I do like Meg's solution, however, and know I did that with invitations to my first wedding - I probably did it with a few for my second wedding too...

AFAIK, it was created so there was a neutral term (as "Mr" is) for women so that a woman wouldn't have to be either "unmarried" (Miss) or "married" (Mrs.).

This is my understanding as well. We had this discussion at work one day. One girl absolutely hated 'Ms' and the other girl resented being called 'Miss'. This was in the UK. So, it's a personal thing really. I couldn't care less either way. When I did my invites, I thought about the person I was inviting and what I thought they would want to be called.

Like others, I don't know what the etiquette books would say, but I have always used Miss for any unmarried woman, no matter what age she was.
Unless she was divorced, in which case I would use Ms... or if i didnt know what her marital status was.

I personally would love to be called Miss again, if it weren't for all those pesky divorces! 

Like others, I don't know what the etiquette books would say, but I have always used Miss for any unmarried woman, no matter what age she was.
Unless she was divorced, in which case I would use Ms... or if i didnt know what her marital status was.

I personally would love to be called Miss again, if it weren't for all those pesky divorces! 

This is how I see it, and how I have noticed it done in the UK. Women in our office, no matter what their age, if they have never been married, prefer to be called Miss. If the person addressing the envelope is unsure of the woman's marital status, they put Ms. If they know she is married, they put Mrs. If she is divorced, then as far as I know, it should be Ms. If widowed and not remarried, then still Mrs. At least, that is what I would do.  It's also how my teachers were called in school. Always Miss, no matter what their age, if unmarried, Mrs. if married or widowed, and Ms. if divorced.

When I did my invites, I thought about the person I was inviting and what I thought they would want to be called.

THIS. This is actually considered proper etiquette, according to Miss Manners: address people as they'd prefer to be addressed (if you know.)

I'm a divorced 47 year old, and I loathe and detest being called "Miss"  -- I prefer Ms.

I changed back to my maiden name in the divorce.

"Miss" sounds to me like I'm the never-married virgin spinster of the parish!  

In the US, I got mail addressed to Ms, but now that I'm back in the UK I'm dismayed to see that my household bills are arriving addressed to "Miss" -- which I find a bit of an assumption. If they don't know my status they ought to use "Ms" in my opinion. I can't stand it.

I feel that Ms seems more mature and allows for possible status of either currently married or has been married. I don't know why but it just seems more dignified and worldly than Miss, which feels to me like both the little girl and the old spinster lady designation....

Ms for me.

"Miss" sounds to me like I'm the never-married virgin spinster of the parish!  

i like that!
I just might reinvent myself under this guise, just so i can be called Miss!

Etiquette guide to addressing correspondence:

http://www.emilypost.com/everyday/forms_of_address.htm

In America we tend to reserve the term 'Miss' for ladies under 18.  This may not be proper etiquette, just seems to be the way we do it.  I personally would feel ackward addressing something to someone older than me as Miss.

"Miss" sounds to me like I'm the never-married virgin spinster of the parish!  

i like that!
I just might reinvent myself under this guise, just so i can be called Miss!

Hahahahh!  

But just so you know, that means you must also wear the standard long black dress, white bonnet, tiny round granny specs, pinched mouth expression, and white hair in a bun -- plus yell grumpy admonishments at the kids in the neighborhood when their ball goes in your yard!  

Hahahahh!  

But just so you know, that means you must also wear the standard long black dress, white bonnet, tiny round granny specs, pinched mouth expression, and white hair in a bun -- plus yell grumpy admonishments at the kids in the neighborhood when their ball goes in your yard!  

nae bother... I'm already half-way there!