US: Christopher Columbus Was a Bad Guy

Sorry by truth I meant both sides to the story.  It's quite a disservice to not teach everything in it's entirety.  Most kids know Helen Keller for her handicaps... what about her radical socialism?

I definitely shouldn't have said truth.  Should have said that it should be an educator's job to present as much information as possible on a subject. However that's not always the case as States and Boards of Education dictate what's taught in the classroom more than the actual teacher.

This is very true but unfortunately, a lot of teacher's aren't able to teach all sides of the story, whether they want to or not.  Half of my friends are now teachers and they all complain about the restrictions that are placed on them.  It's to the point now that they basically get a piece of paper at the beginning of the year from the administration that says "Teach what is on this paper and nothing else."  Yeah for SOLs! 

Interestingly enough, when I went to pick my daughter up from school yesterday, there were pictures outside of her classroom that the children had drawn.  Most of the pictures showed 3 ships, sailing across an ocean and they had red crosses on them.  I asked my daughter what those pictures meant and she replied "My teacher told us how Christopher Columbus found America." 

This is very true but unfortunately, a lot of teacher's aren't able to teach all sides of the story, whether they want to or not.  Half of my friends are now teachers and they all complain about the restrictions that are placed on them.  It's to the point now that they basically get a piece of paper at the beginning of the year from the administration that says "Teach what is on this paper and nothing else."  Yeah for SOLs! 

Interestingly enough, when I went to pick my daughter up from school yesterday, there were pictures outside of her classroom that the children had drawn.  Most of the pictures showed 3 ships, sailing across an ocean and they had red crosses on them.  I asked my daughter what those pictures meant and she replied "My teacher told us how Christopher Columbus found America." 

Precisely one of the reasons I quit teaching early in my career.   I would love to go back but the headaches!!!!

It also doesn't help that the football coaches are usually history teachers, and if your school has a winning football team, administrators don't really care if there is quality instruction or even the minimum curriculum as mandated by state is followed.

Another handicap for teachers is that every word, topic, discussion, book, article, etc has to be so objective and unbiased as to not offend anyone.  Everytime you turn around it seems someone is offended.   

To be able to teach everything with an open minded discussion and not enter into some dangerous waters, is nearly impossible without inciting rioting!

This is very true but unfortunately, a lot of teacher's aren't able to teach all sides of the story, whether they want to or not.  Half of my friends are now teachers and they all complain about the restrictions that are placed on them.  It's to the point now that they basically get a piece of paper at the beginning of the year from the administration that says "Teach what is on this paper and nothing else."  Yeah for SOLs! 

Interestingly enough, when I went to pick my daughter up from school yesterday, there were pictures outside of her classroom that the children had drawn.  Most of the pictures showed 3 ships, sailing across an ocean and they had red crosses on them.  I asked my daughter what those pictures meant and she replied "My teacher told us how Christopher Columbus found America." 

Oh no....

Precisely one of the reasons I quit teaching early in my career.   I would love to go back but the headaches!!!!

It also doesn't help that the football coaches are usually history teachers, and if your school has a winning football team, administrators don't really care if there is quality instruction or even the minimum curriculum as mandated by state is followed.

Another handicap for teachers is that every word, topic, discussion, book, article, etc has to be so objective and unbiased as to not offend anyone.  Everytime you turn around it seems someone is offended.   

To be able to teach everything with an open minded discussion and not enter into some dangerous waters, is nearly impossible without inciting rioting!

And this is exactly why I gave up majoring in education for awhile. 

It's possible to be a great man and still do bad things. Just because you know more, doesn't always mean the end conclusion will be changed too. As per Torn's earlier example, you can teach about all the good that Hitler did for Germany (that is before he destroyed it completely) and still conclude he was a monster. And you can teach about Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus, the questionable legal basis for the Emancipation Proclamation, his illegal detentions, and still, on the whole, conclude that he was a great man.

I learned the good stuff about Hitler and the bad stuff about Lincoln in school.  It's not entirely unheard of for kids to get a well-rounded viewpoint.  But I did have to "unlearn" quite a bit of what I was taught in elementary school, particularly about the Civil War, and that was pretty difficult to deal with.  I think it would have been better to get a more balanced view at a younger age.   

I learned the good stuff about Hitler and the bad stuff about Lincoln in school.  It's not entirely unheard of for kids to get a well-rounded viewpoint.  But I did have to "unlearn" quite a bit of what I was taught in elementary school, particularly about the Civil War, and that was pretty difficult to deal with.  I think it would have been better to get a more balanced view at a younger age.   

Where did you go to school?

Where did you go to school?

Wisconsin.  Ordinary public school.

I'm amazed how people can remember what exactly they learned in elementary school. There are a few things I specifically remember learning about (marine life, Africa, long division, and the pilgrims), but I couldn't tell you exactly how the curriculum was taught to us. I can barely remember what I learned in some of my MA classes 2 years ago!

I think keeping i age appropriate is one thing, but feeding outright lies is another.  Take for example the fact that we're told Columbus's journey proved the earth was round... you wanna talk complete and utter BS beng spoonfed to the kids...

The world was widely accepted as being round and not flat in Columbus's day and some 2000 years before Columbus as proven by the Greek philosopher Pythagoras, who mathmatically calculated a number of things about our planet, including it's shape. In addition, the Navigation used back in the day was BASED on a round world, and not a flat plane. 

the reluctance in the govt of the time to hand over funding was based on the fact Columbus was, for lack of a better term, a tool, and everyone knew he was underestimating the size of the world, the duration of the trip, and the supplies/manpower involved in such an undertaking.  He was also sloppy and passed off alot of guesswork as actual calculations.

Now, telling 5 year olds that "everyone in columbus's day thought the earth was flat, and columbus proved it was wrong" is sloppy education.

Ahhh, history. Seems most of our "greats" r really heinous, no? Rather silly that people speak of these times  as the next sodom when u read something like that.

I still think though that if history education was completely accurate, students might actually enjoy it a bit more.  When you paint the picture that some of those that we learn about in history (Christopher Columbus, Founding Fathers, etc) are such exemplary people it doesn't make them real anymore.  If education included some of their mistakes, and failures it makes them more human.  And far more interesting to learn about.

I agree with this, as it's very important to learn the facts about historical figures instead of half truths. I think it can be done in age appropriate ways, but I think this is a very important part of learning.

Not only did he preserve slavery in the border states that aligned themselves with the Union.  But Lincoln was actually incredibly racist.  He wanted black Americans deported to Liberia and ranted at how "troublesome" he found them.  Slavery was merely his "WMD pretext" to invade the South and force them back into a Union they didn't want to be part of. 

And you won't find mention of it in "History 101" books, but during his time in the Illinois state legislature he voted in favor of prohibiting free blacks from settling in the state.   Hardly the actions of a man who is now widely, and incorrectly, regarded as being a champion of Negro rights and equality.   

But then we see this distortion of the truth happening in much more modern times as well, and in some ways it's far more worrying when the historical truth is still relatively recent, still well within living memory of many people. 

I think a more complete view of Lincoln came to be taught before a more complete view of Columbus did.

Maybe we had a really excellent public school, but many of the things brought up about Lincoln were discussed in our American History classes from about 6th or 7th grade on up.  Maybe not the bit about the free black settling in Illinois, but most of the other stuff.

I think keeping i age appropriate is one thing, but feeding outright lies is another.  Take for example the fact that we're told Columbus's journey proved the earth was round... you wanna talk complete and utter BS beng spoonfed to the kids...

Seriously? Kids are actually being taught that?

Seriously? Kids are actually being taught that?

Yeah, we were taught that in elementary school, and a few years ago, I met a kid who went to a public middle school in Buffalo who was being taught the same thing.  I posted about it earlier.  I tried to convince him that he was being lied to, and one of my friends who was taught the same thing, was arguing against me. I eventually gave up, but it was truly annoying.  The myth apparently started with Washington Irving.

Wow.