The immeasurable joy of COUNCIL TAX

I don't have a problem with paying Council Tax - it is equivalent to the city and state income tax that I paid when I was in the US.

I do have a problem with the fact that the amount you pay is based on the value of the property that you live in - rather than the property that you own.  Someone who rents a flat, because they can't afford to own property, shouldn't be paying the same council tax as the person who owns the flat next door.

I do have a problem with the fact that the amount you pay is based on the value of the property that you live in - rather than the property that you own.  Someone who rents a flat, because they can't afford to own property, shouldn't be paying the same council tax as the person who owns the flat next door.

Surely you'd pay anyway?

If the tax was charged to the property owner it would just be hidden in the rent.

Surely you'd pay anyway?

If the tax was charged to the property owner it would just be hidden in the rent.

True.

-Rubbish collection
-Sewerage
-A small percentage to the fire service
-If in London - an increasingly large percentage to fund the pointless tier of local government we call the London Assembly
-If in London - funding Ken Livingstone's whisky habit
-If outside of London - funding local council and possibly county councils to go on jollies, overpay their officers, and duplicate work
-Poor road maintenence
-Failing schools
-Community Support Officers, ie those guys who look like real policement but have no powers
-Closing libraries
-Poorly maintained parks

...I could go on.

Welcome to Britain!!!


Vicky

That post made me cry a little.

I think it would all depend on your landlord.  My landlord at university, in the U.S. just charged the renters the amount it cost to cover her taxes.  She was super.

Not sure that analogy translates here.  Most landlords won't do this, because council tax varies so wildly from place to place.


Vicky

I do have a problem with the fact that the amount you pay is based on the value of the property that you live in - rather than the property that you own.  Someone who rents a flat, because they can't afford to own property, shouldn't be paying the same council tax as the person who owns the flat next door.

I agree with that. The tenant derives no benefit from the value of the property.  I think the C. Tax should really be split between tenant and landlord.  Or preferably scrapped altogether - which has been promised here in Scotland.  They are going to introduce some kind of local income tax instead.

I don't understand why it isn't a flat rate, but instead based on the value of the property.

If we're all getting the exact same services, why should we have to pay more? Its really upsetting!

The history of local taxation in the UK...

It started with the Rates, which was based solely on the deemed rental value of your property.  This left little old ladies on a pension paying a fortune because they were still living in the homes they grew up in, and differed wildly from region to region.  So that was scrapped, and was replaced by...

The Community Charge, otherwise known as the Poll Tax, which was a tax per person.  This was deemed to be unfair as it meant that individuals had to pay regardless of their income or value of their property, and was seen as moving the burden from the rich to the poor - no one judged rates according to the old lady, but according to the millionaire in the mansion who was paying the same as the plumber down the road...cue mass riots, and one of the most successful direct action campaigns the UK has ever seen...

So then the Council Tax was brought in as a sort of compromise.  Those in properties of a lower value pay less than those in more expensive properties, but large families aren't penalised as it is not a 'per head' charge.  Single people, students and those on low incomes get exemptions or assistance.  The problem is that, as you say, if you use the same services why should you pay more just because you live in a more expensive property?  Well, the idea is that if you live in a more expensive property then you must have more money, so you pay more so that the less well off can have their discounts.  Unfortunately, it doesn't really work this way, as the real difference is in local authority to local authority.  A five bedroom semi in Wandsworth is more valuable than a five bed semi in Harringey, but because Wandsworth Council have different spending priorities and less debt they can charge vastly less council tax than Harringey.

I'd love to see a taxation system which pleases everyone, but that will never happen. 


Vicky

  The problem is that, as you say, if you use the same services why should you pay more just because you live in a more expensive property?  Well, the idea is that if you live in a more expensive property then you must have more money, so you pay more so that the less well off can have their discounts. 

Why not just tax income, then?

The Lib Dems actually have a local income tax as one of the main points of their tax reform policies.

Vicky

Why not just tax income, then?

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I can assure you that they're taking a fair chunk of mine already....

I agree with that. The tenant derives no benefit from the value of the property.  I think the C. Tax should really be split between tenant and landlord.

I still don't understand how charging the Council Tax to the Landlord will help the renter.  They're not going to 'swallow' the charge, just up the rent to cover it.

When I was renting the TC was about £110 but it wouldn't make a difference if I paid all £110 to the Local Authority, paid £55 to the LA and my rent went up by £55 or nothing to the LA and my rent ups by £110.  I would still pay the same amount in the end.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I can assure you that they're taking a fair chunk of mine already....

I meant local income tax to pay for the local services that are currently paid for by Council tax, in addition to national income tax. Some cities in the US, such as New York, require residents to pay local income tax (in addition to state and federal income tax).

I meant local income tax to pay for the local services that are currently paid for by Council tax, in addition to national income tax. Some cities in the US, such as New York, require residents to pay local income tax (in addition to state and federal income tax).

Local tax where I live in PA is only 1% of money that is taxed by the state.  That would be considerly less than what I am paying here.