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Topic: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....  (Read 9812 times)

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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2009, 02:34:48 PM »
The reason non-Americans find the whole thing confusing is that when you say "Italian" we're never sure if you mean Italian or Italian.

Like spag bol?  As Americans, it's our mission (and delight) to confuse (and baffle) the rest of the world!  :P
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

- from Anthem, by Leonard Cohen (b 1934)


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2009, 02:43:37 PM »
Like spag bol?  As Americans, it's our mission (and delight) to confuse (and baffle) the rest of the world!  :P

One of the regular topics that pop up every now and then (a la mixer taps) is "British" Lasagne made with white sauce and how inauthentic or just plain wrong it is.  When in fact lasagne made with besciamella is pretty common in Italy with the "American" ricotta version being more of a southern speciality.


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2009, 02:48:10 PM »
One of the regular topics that pop up every now and then (a la mixer taps) is "British" Lasagne made with white sauce and how inauthentic or just plain wrong it is.  When in fact lasagne made with besciamella is pretty common in Italy with the "American" ricotta version being more of a southern speciality.

Very true, Bechamel Sauce in lasagna (however tasty) - it just ain't right!  ;)
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

- from Anthem, by Leonard Cohen (b 1934)


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2009, 02:49:55 PM »
Very true, Bechamel Sauce in lasagna (however tasty) - it just ain't right!  ;)


Seriously!!! My husband and I are planning on having a battle of the lasagnas.....
Fee Fi Fo Fum, I fell in love with an Englishman. 

Met 11.5.09 in St. Lucia
Visited England Dec-Jan 09, Aug-Sep 09
He visited US April 09, June 09
Engaged in June 09
Married 8.29.09 (on a Marriage Visit Visa)
Returned to US 9.9.09
Submitted Online Spousal Visa App 9.25.09
Biometrics 9.29.09
Sent docs to expediter 9.29.09
Docs to Consulate 10.2.09
Visa ISSUED 10.2.09
Moved to UK 10.23.09
Got first job 11.14.09
Started first job 12.7.2009
Second Wedding in US 7.17.2010
First Wedding Anniversary 8.29.10
First Immiversary 10.24


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2009, 02:50:03 PM »
One of the regular topics that pop up every now and then (a la mixer taps) is "British" Lasagne made with white sauce and how inauthentic or just plain wrong it is.  When in fact lasagne made with besciamella is pretty common in Italy with the "American" ricotta version being more of a southern speciality.

If anyone says how inauthentic lasagne with white sauce is, they're clearly misspeaking.  Now, if they think it's 'wrong', that to me means they think it's different to what they're used to...which is the typical red-sauce lasagne in the US.  'Wrong' is not a nice way of saying it's different, I grant you.   But there's a difference between saying something's not Italian (a false statement) and saying it's not what one is used to.


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2009, 02:58:52 PM »
I suppose I'm one of the irritating ones!!  :-\\\\

And me as well!

I do have to say that I've really enjoyed reading this thread and learning about everyone's perspectives. When I studied abroad in England, I really started to wonder what makes an American an American. How would I identify a fellow American as opposed to a British person, if we took away the accents? Is it shared cultural experiences and references?

It is the consequence of our country beginning its life as a smattering of European settlements and colonies a mere 300 years ago and hosting several waves of immigrants that part of being American, in my opinion, includes a collective acknowledgement of other nationalities and cultures in the makeup of this country. Individual Americans choose to acknowledge it in varying degrees, ranging from not at all to speaking the ancestral language and preserving ancestral traditions.

My pedigree is 100% English on my father's side -- they arrived in Massachusetts Bay Colony back in the 1630's. My mother's parents were more recent immigrants -- both from Ulster. It always amused me that my mother (a bit of a Hyacinth Bucket type) liked to think of herself as "Scottish" and maybe the family did come from Scotland generations ago. But my grandparents were Irish. They thought of themselves as Irish, their immigration papers gave "Ireland" as the place of birth, their parents were listed as "Irish".
And now I am officially Irish. Does that mean I can call myself "Irish-American" to designate the dual nationality?  ;)

I understand this entirely, and it's something that I'm thinking about as I pursue Italian citizenship. My maternal ancestors were from Italy, although my family has been in the US for 100 years. So it's not like they got off the boat yesterday. But our heritage has always been significant to our family. However, I would not go to Europe and say that I was Italian. I would say that I was American with Italian ancestry. Yet, when I receive my Italian citizenship, I *really* will be Italian, even though I don't speak Italian and would feel like an American first if I was plopped in the middle of Italy.

It's worthy to note the Italian government's position through citizenship by descent. Unlike most countries that offer jure sanguinis (rule of blood) citizenship, Italy does not limit the number of generations through which one can claim citizenship. Italy lost so many citizens to emigration and by establishing this policy, is in a sense trying to reclaim them. Furthermore, Italy holds the position that someone eligible for jure sanguinis citizenship has really always been a citizen of Italy, and by going through the process is merely having that citizenship formally recognized.

However, the jure sanguinis law was established way back in 1912, in the throes of mass migration. Now that several generations have emerged of Italians who don't speak Italian, who have never been to Italy, and have little understanding of "true" Italian ways, some Italians (as in people born and raised in Italy) want to have this law repealed.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." - Almost Famous

"Everyone, just...pretend to be normal, okay?" - Little Miss Sunshine


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2009, 03:04:14 PM »
I like that way of expressing it!

The reason non-Americans find the whole thing confusing is that when you say "Italian" we're never sure if you mean Italian or Italian.

Yes. I try to be conscious of that when I'm in Europe.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." - Almost Famous

"Everyone, just...pretend to be normal, okay?" - Little Miss Sunshine


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2009, 03:08:43 PM »
If anyone says how inauthentic lasagne with white sauce is, they're clearly misspeaking.  Now, if they think it's 'wrong', that to me means they think it's different to what they're used to...which is the typical red-sauce lasagne in the US.  'Wrong' is not a nice way of saying it's different, I grant you.   But there's a difference between saying something's not Italian (a false statement) and saying it's not what one is used to.


Didn't mean to say it's wrong, it's just different from the norm that I'm used to.  And wrong in a purely joking sense. :)
Fee Fi Fo Fum, I fell in love with an Englishman. 

Met 11.5.09 in St. Lucia
Visited England Dec-Jan 09, Aug-Sep 09
He visited US April 09, June 09
Engaged in June 09
Married 8.29.09 (on a Marriage Visit Visa)
Returned to US 9.9.09
Submitted Online Spousal Visa App 9.25.09
Biometrics 9.29.09
Sent docs to expediter 9.29.09
Docs to Consulate 10.2.09
Visa ISSUED 10.2.09
Moved to UK 10.23.09
Got first job 11.14.09
Started first job 12.7.2009
Second Wedding in US 7.17.2010
First Wedding Anniversary 8.29.10
First Immiversary 10.24


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2009, 03:16:35 PM »

Didn't mean to say it's wrong, it's just different from the norm that I'm used to.  And wrong in a purely joking sense. :)

Exactly - it's just different.


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2009, 03:20:51 PM »
I'll eat any lasagna put in front of me.


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2009, 03:26:47 PM »
This thread just reminded me of something a(n originally American) friend of mine has run into here in the UK after becoming a naturalised Brit (just like myself) - a couple of native Brits telling her & trying to argue that she's not really British.  Now that makes me see red!  [smiley=bomb.gif]

I'm sure it's just ignorance (or misunderstanding) about what it means to be British - as in the citizenship-nationality thing, whereas to be English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish is a different matter altogether.  But yeah - I paid my dues, paid a heckuva lot of money in visa & citizenship fees, took & passed the test (that a lot of native Brits would not likely pass without undertaking study), and I'll be d*mned if anyone is going to tell me I'm not really British.  So that really rankles, yes.

Fortunately, the only time (so far) that I have encountered anything like that myself was from a French woman who had lived in the UK for most of her adult life.  It was at a book group I tried once (and never went back).  At the beginning of the group, when I was being introduced around, she asked if I was American & I said I was - but that I was also British, having dual citizenship.  She scoffed & said - 'Oh you mean you have a British passport.'

I smiled and said, 'Yes I paid a lot of money for visas & citizenship, and took the test & everything required to become a British citizen.'

She responded by saying she also had a British passport, but that it was such an easy thing to get.  (Yes, she was already from an EU country, and had obtained hers many moons ago - old bag.  Tellingly, she felt it her duty to hold forth for most of the book discussion (the others hardly spoke) which included plenty of veiled anti-American comments that seemed designed to bait me into an argument.)

One of my native British friends (tongue firmly in cheek) said I should have called her a cheese-eating surrender monkey & ran out the door.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 03:34:50 PM by Mrs Robinson »
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

- from Anthem, by Leonard Cohen (b 1934)


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2009, 03:40:50 PM »
Ah, but if he was born in the US, he most likely IS American, as being born in US soil gives you citizenship. Most people as being discussed in this topic do not have citizenship of the country they claim.

Oh sure but my point is -- here's a guy who was born in the US when his parents were posted here for six months (so yes, he has American citizenship). They went back to Chile and he spent his whole life there, he didn't even visit the US again until he was in his twenties. He learned English as a second language, didn't go to US schools or experience the culture or whatever. Believe me, he has had plenty of people tell him he is only "technically" American, and shouldn't go around saying that he is!

I know it's not the same as cases we are discussing here, it's just to say that with all the mass movement of people around the globe, not everyone's identities are fixed or singular. I don't think your passport has to be the end all and be all of your identity. Someone else just like my friend might not consider themselves American at all. I just don't think it matters that much.

I do like to joke that I was doomed to be a drinker from the womb: English/Irish/Scottish/German/Latvian.

My family heritage is basically English and Russian. I never had a chance. Now where's that vodka?  ;)


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2009, 03:44:19 PM »
My family heritage is basically English and Russian. I never had a chance. Now where's that vodka?  ;)


Hahahaha, is that blood running through your veins?... oh wait, no- it's booze. :) hahahahahahahaha.
Fee Fi Fo Fum, I fell in love with an Englishman. 

Met 11.5.09 in St. Lucia
Visited England Dec-Jan 09, Aug-Sep 09
He visited US April 09, June 09
Engaged in June 09
Married 8.29.09 (on a Marriage Visit Visa)
Returned to US 9.9.09
Submitted Online Spousal Visa App 9.25.09
Biometrics 9.29.09
Sent docs to expediter 9.29.09
Docs to Consulate 10.2.09
Visa ISSUED 10.2.09
Moved to UK 10.23.09
Got first job 11.14.09
Started first job 12.7.2009
Second Wedding in US 7.17.2010
First Wedding Anniversary 8.29.10
First Immiversary 10.24


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2009, 03:52:17 PM »
Does that mean I can call myself "Irish-American" to designate the dual nationality?  ;)

When talking about my getting Irish citizenship, I mentioned that little tidbit to my husband. I'm not sure he was able to work that one out in his brain!  ;D


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Re: I am part .... and part... and a quater ....
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2009, 04:24:43 PM »
When talking about my getting Irish citizenship, I mentioned that little tidbit to my husband. I'm not sure he was able to work that one out in his brain!  ;D

There's a joke in thar somewhere.   ;)   
Still tired of coteries and bans. But hanging about anyway.


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