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Topic: Switzerland: Swiss voters vote to ban minarets  (Read 2070 times)

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Re: Switzerland: Swiss voters vote to ban minarets
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2009, 10:13:24 PM »
Yes, there is no outright message that muslims in Switzerland can't practice their religion, but it definitely sends a message of resentment, fear, and unwelcome.

I think the only feelings of "resentment, fear, and unwelcome" are experienced by Europeans who are intimidated and even murdered for speaking out against Islam in their own homeland.  e.g. the Mohammed comics episode, and that Dutch film maker who was stabbed to death in a street in broad day light.
Democrats and Republicans - fiddling while Rome burns.


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Re: Switzerland: Swiss voters vote to ban minarets
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2009, 10:23:35 PM »
Never said that.  No one is saying they can't practice their religion.  I just don't see how flooding Switzerland's sky line with minarets is going to allow them to practice their religion.

So not being able to build a place of worship isn't a restriction on practicing one's religion?


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Re: Switzerland: Swiss voters vote to ban minarets
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2009, 10:25:32 PM »
JM, If you're going to look at it that way, you might want to consider what the Christians did to the Pagans in Europe and more recently to various Polynesian and African societies. Did anyone invite the Chrstians into those countries  to destroy the indigenous culture? No. But I suspect you think that was OK.


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Re: Switzerland: Swiss voters vote to ban minarets
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2009, 11:01:35 PM »
I think the only feelings of "resentment, fear, and unwelcome" are experienced by Europeans who are intimidated and even murdered for speaking out against Islam in their own homeland.  e.g. the Mohammed comics episode, and that Dutch film maker who was stabbed to death in a street in broad day light.

1. Doesn't it send a message of "unwelcome" when you say things like "Switzerland is a Christian country"?

2. I see plenty of Europeans who are not at all intimidated from speaking out against Islam -- the English Defence League have demos in Trafalgar Square, ffs. I think anti-Islamic sentiments are, sadly, generally tolerated in many quarters.

3. Theo van Gogh was murdered by one mentally deranged individual (and yes, this was a terrible tragedy). That's very different from a national government or polity instituting policies targeting one particular faith.


Re: Switzerland: Swiss voters vote to ban minarets
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2009, 02:06:26 PM »
The ban is clearly inconsistent with Switzerland’s obligations under international law to respect the freedom of religion and not to discriminate on the grounds of religious belief. Even if the Swiss Federal Supreme Court does not reject the law, the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg almost certainly will.


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Re: Switzerland: Swiss voters vote to ban minarets
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2009, 04:07:42 PM »
The ban is clearly inconsistent with Switzerland’s obligations under international law to respect the freedom of religion and not to discriminate on the grounds of religious belief. Even if the Swiss Federal Supreme Court does not reject the law, the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg almost certainly will.

I'd almost be inclined to remove the word almost. Almost.
Still tired of coteries and bans. But hanging about anyway.


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Re: Switzerland: Swiss voters vote to ban minarets
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2009, 07:25:24 PM »
While I understand why the Swiss are tense about Muslim immigration/assimilation, I think banning minarets isn't going to help.  Extremists in Switzerland are going to hold extremist views no matter how many minarets there are, so all this does is insult and possibly anger reasonable or moderate people who aren't causing any trouble.

I think in any society you're going to have extremist nutbags who hate other people.  As long as they keep their nuttiness to themselves, leave them alone and they'll marginalize themselves.  If they cause trouble for other people, apply the appropriate laws against incitement or assault and hold them accountable for their actions.



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