A ridiculous over-draft situation. Please help.

Hi all,

I never thought I'd be in this situation.  Anyways, in hopes of getting more accurate answers, I'm going to lay down the background story.

- Opened a bank account with NatWest in Fall 2007, while I was studying in the UK.  I did not get a student account for some reason -- I applied for a bank account and was given a regular one.

- I had financial issues and I asked if I could get an overdraft on my account.  I had previously tried to overdraw to see if I was able to do so.  I was not.  I then went to a University of Nottingham branch of NatWest and I was told by an employee of NatWest that because I am an international student, I cannot get an overdraft.  When I overdraw on my account, it will be rejected.  There is no way I will be able to overdraw.

- I left the UK in June of 2008.  The last time I used this bank account in the UK was in that month.  I also suspended my mail from the bank.  I did not close the account because I wasn't aware that I wouldn't be returning to the UK that Fall.  The housing deposit I put down for student housing was refunded to me over the summer, and the funds were placed in this NatWest account.

- I withdrew the money from my NatWest account, emptying it.  This emptying of the account occurred in August of 2008.

- Flashforward to now:  My ex-boyfriend, the resident of the house where the bank mail was originally sent to, just emailed me and said that he's been receiving bank statements for the past year and a half and he would like it to stop.  I asked him to open the mail, confident that the account was at 0 GBP, asking him to give me information about my account number and bank ID number.  I had left the paperwork in the UK.

- Ex-boyfriend informs me that the bank is asking that I pay 342.44 GBP to them.  This is a total shock.  I get the ID number and log into online banking with NatWest to analyze the situation.  I am unaware of how this came to be -- I am being charged 28 GBP per month, since September 2008.

- I search through my records and it turns out that when I withdrew money from my NatWest account in August of 2008, the account was overdrawn by FORTY FIVE PENCE.  As a result, I have had overdraft fees charged my account for over one and a half years.

My plan is to take time out of my busy schedule on Friday morning and call NatWest on their overseas number, asking to speak to a manager.  I want to bring up the fact that I requested that my mail be suspended, but it was not suspended.  I made this request at a branch of the bank and the employee said he had done this.  It was not done.  I then want to bring up the fact that I was told explicitly that nothing I would do would result in an overdraft, because I was an international student.  Therefore, I don't recognize the bank's right to charge me overdraft fees.  I am certain the extra $2 that I had to pay to withdraw this money from a non-NatWest account is what resulted in the fees.

I was told, however, that NOTHING I did would result in an overdraft.  Therefore, if there was not enough money to complete the transaction including the ATM fee, the transaction would not be able to occur.  I unfortunately do not have the name of the NatWest employee who told me this.

Do I have a leg to stand on here?  I only owe the bank 45 pence, technically 44 because I occurred 1 p of interest in September 2008 before the charges occurred.

As a student, I am taking six classes at my current university in the US, barely making enough money to get by.  I have student loans that I am paying off, tuition that I am paying, medical bills I'm trying to sort out, credit card bills, etc. 

I have a few questions here.

1.  Do I have a legitimate case against NatWest?

2.  What happens if I don't pay these charges?  I want to close the account but typically accounts can't be closed until charges are paid off.  I am going to request that the account be closed and the charges be nullified.

3.  I was under the impression that credit doesn't follow you overseas.  Is this true?  NatWest has no access to my social security number, so I don't see how this can affect my credit score in the US.

4.  Lastly, what are the repercussions for not paying these charges off in terms of traveling?  When going through British immigration, will I be stopped and potentially questioned about these fees?

Thanks for your time.  I am not "freaked" out by this large sum. I am frustrated, however, as I placed my trust in NatWest.  I was given information by them and I had no reason to believe that it was false.  Furthermore, I have no intention on paying this bank any fee whatsoever, especially because I only overdrew by 45 pence, which was later reduced to 44 pence due to interest. 

Advice?  Please?  I feel like this is a situation that could easily spiral into something else so I am open to any and all suggestions that you could give me.  I appreciate the time you've taken to read this.

I think, as you've suggested, your best bet is to call them and explain the issues.  I would do this in as nice and somewhat-clueless/innocent way as possible.  I have learned from experience that going in guns blazing is usually not the best way to get customer service representatives to help you, no matter how in the right you are and how wrong their company is.  For instance, I just rang the IRS about a notice they sent me saying I owed them about $1,000 and was very calm, pleasant, and yet firm and the end result (following an hour long phone call) was they actually owe me $1,000. 

Remember that although you were unfairly penalized for an overdraft that you were told could not happen, it is in some sense your responsibility to check your account to make sure things like this don't happen.  I just found out that I had had nearly 500 pounds taken out of my UK account (fraud) in June and didn't figure out until October.  This was frustrating because I had hoped to use my account in the UK when I was there in recently, and I couldn't because it had been frozen.  Had I been keeping track of my account, I would have discovered this much earlier and could have had it taken care of before my trip.  All this just to say that you might have a had an easier time if you'd discovered it right away and rang them then rather than a year and 300 GBP later.  But that's neither here nor there now.  Just call them and explain.  Good luck.

Thanks.  You're from CT?  I'm from CT.

Not from CT, but I do live here.    Where are you from?  Do you live here now?

Just curious, and I don't know how things work in UK banks, but why were they charging an overdraft fee every month? Isn't it just a fee once for the one OD?

I hope you get it worked out! Geeta's given some good advice. Good luck and let us know how it turns out in the end.

Just curious, and I don't know how things work in UK banks, but why were they charging an overdraft fee every month? Isn't it just a fee once for the one OD?

I think they were charging a fee for being overdrawn every month.  A penalty for being in the red month after month.  My bank does that here in the US too.  One fee for the offending transaction, and then additional fees if you don't get the money in there to clear up the negative balance.

I suspect that your chances of having this debt written off is very good, considering it was originally over a 45p debt.

Just phone them, explain how it happened, that you've only just found out as you haven't been resident in the UK for all that time and that you have no intention of returning, that you should not have been allowed to go overdrawn in the first place, that they can see the account has not been active and surely, for the purposes of closure, they just write off the debt.

Even offer to send them the original 45p.

I suspect if you make it clear that you now live in the US, and they have no hope in hell of recovering the money, they'll see sense and just write it off.


Looks like you're not the only one Try quoting this case and see what happens...

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/savings-and-banking/bank-charges/article.html?in_article_id=419095&in_page_id=507

I think they were charging a fee for being overdrawn every month.  A penalty for being in the red month after month.  My bank does that here in the US too.  One fee for the offending transaction, and then additional fees if you don't get the money in there to clear up the negative balance.

Ah ok. I guess if I've had an OD, it's usually just a mistimed payment and I'm paid the next day (making the balance positive again). A monthly fee like that is *really* teh suck!!!

Thanks guys!

I am going to politely state that I am confused as to how this was allowed to happen, citing what I was told by a bank employee at a NatWest branch.  Of course, going to cite that I placed my trust in this employee's advice.  I will then state that I have no intentions of returning to the United Kingdom, however I need this issue cleared up.  Then, of course, I will even agree to submit a photocopy of my student visa, which would prove I was a student, along with a photocopy of my University of Nottingham ID card.  I can also provide documentation from my current University in the US stating that they accepted transfer credits from the University of Nottingham on my behalf.

Then, I will state that I agree to paying 45 pence but nothing else, as I was told that I clearly would not have an overdrawn account.

Politely of course.

My British history professor who has lived in Britain on and off basically told me to be really straight forward yet calm about the whole thing and keep pressing the issue higher up through the food chain, aiming to speak with the highest ranking person I can get a hold of.

Thanks or all the advice.  GrumpyJet, that article is great.  I'll mention it if things turn sour!

Geeta, I live in CT now.  I was raised in Byram but I'm currently living with some family in Greenwich.  Where are you residing?

1.  Do I have a legitimate case against NatWest?

Legally speaking, probably not given you don't seem to have anything in writing regarding their not letting you go overdrawn in any circumstance. Morally speaking, it would be a pretty strange bank that didn't rescind these charges in the circumstances, although I'm baffled why you chose not to check on your account status even after you'd made a withdrawal from it.

3.  I was under the impression that credit doesn't follow you overseas.  Is this true?  NatWest has no access to my social security number, so I don't see how this can affect my credit score in the US.

There have been stories on the equivalent British Expats message board of UK debts being sold to a US debt collector. There have been conflicting opinions on whether such debts are collectable in the US and general agreement that they can't affect your US credit record.

4.  Lastly, what are the repercussions for not paying these charges off in terms of traveling?  When going through British immigration, will I be stopped and potentially questioned about these fees?

No, it's a civil matter.

Geeta, I live in CT now.  I was raised in Byram but I'm currently living with some family in Greenwich.  Where are you residing?

Cool!  We live in New Haven.  We have been here about a year now. 

I'm going to offer to pay them the 44 pence.  That is all I'm willing to pay to them.

I, too, have heard conflicting opinions on whether or not UK debt can make its way over to the US. 

Geeta, that isn't TOO far.  Well, maybe an hour, but still!  CT isn't that big of a state.

Suspending your mail doesn't do anything other than not send you a statement, so I don't understand what that has to do with this, other than they didn't suspend the statements. Even so, it honestly is your responsibility to check your account online if you aren't getting paper statements.  I hope the bank will rule in your favour....but I really don't think it's likely.   If you had caught it within the first month or two, I could see the bank refunding the fees...but a year and a half later? I think you'll be lucky if they reverse half the fees for you, but good luck on getting it totally reversed! 

One word of advice: If they won't refund the fees, ask them to freeze your account and if freezing it will keep the fees from accumulating. The last thing you want is to accumulate more fees while you're trying to pay it down.

NatWest are pretty lax about reversing OD charges.  My husband has banked with them for years, gone overdrawn quite a few times (accidentally - and he does NOT have a permitted overdraft) and every single time managed to convince them to not charge him (he's very convincing! ).  If you're firm (but polite), I'll bet you get this sorted fairly easily.

I sympathise, because I've gone overdrawn by less than a pound before...it stinks! (thankfully Natwest have changed their charges to £5 rather than £28 now)

In answer to your other questions, no, your credit doesn't follow you from one country to another. And no, you would not have any trouble visiting this country again due to a debt you owe (unless possibly if you owed it to the government itself). The only problems this will cause you is that your credit will be negatively effected here in the UK, and you would most likely not be able to open another bank account here in the UK. I suggest you politely explain your situation, and they should be smart enough to realise that they need to write this debt off, as either way, it most likely won't be paid. Good luck!