Spelling...

We've come a long way from an enquiry about spelling differences to disrepectful Mexicans.

Indeed.

But it's been enlightening, at any rate, especially as the child of a first generation American whose parents were from Mexico and his Mexican-American wife.

 

Many Jews immigrated to Argentina.

This!  My parents are out tonight celebrating Chanukah at the home of some Jewish friends from Argentina.  When they go out, they sometimes use some 'Spanglish' terms.  Bet a bunch of folks are labelling them all kinds of things, even though they all hold American citizenship.

Nice, eh?!

Definitely.  I also think it's really rude if you're with people socially and one or two don't speak your language (unless they are trying to learn it).

In Europe I have lived in Spain, France, Italy and Luxembourg and I have met so many Brits and Americans living there speaking in English only. The ones who made an effort or enjoyed learning a new language were very rare.

Jewish friends from Argentina.

If they used Rioplatense that would throw the bigots off the scent, wouldn't it? Or maybe make them worse!

One of my favourite Argentinian films is the gentle comedy "Sol De Ottoño" (Autumn Sun) with the always excellent Federico Luppi.

"Though outwardly at peace being middle-aged and single, a Jewish woman still places a personal ad in a local newspaper requesting the company of an older Jewish man. This warm, tender romantic drama follows what happens when her best respondent turns out to be a gentile. Until she discovered his religious affiliation, Clara was quite taken with Raul. Though she at first spurns him, she realizes she needs him. Her brother is about to visit her from Boston and she has been lying to him about being in a relationship. Fortunately, Raul goes along with the ruse that soon ceases to be a ruse."

It's a scream when she has to coach him to say and do things in a "Jewish" way...

If they used Rioplatense that would throw the bigots off the scent, wouldn't it? Or maybe make them worse!

One of my favourite Argentinian films is the gentle comedy "Sol De Ottoño" (Autumn Sun) with the always excellent Federico Luppi.

"Though outwardly at peace being middle-aged and single, a Jewish woman still places a personal ad in a local newspaper requesting the company of an older Jewish man. This warm, tender romantic drama follows what happens when her best respondent turns out to be a gentile. Until she discovered his religious affiliation, Clara was quite taken with Raul. Though she at first spurns him, she realizes she needs him. Her brother is about to visit her from Boston and she has been lying to him about being in a relationship. Fortunately, Raul goes along with the ruse that soon ceases to be a ruse."

It's a scream when she has to coach him to say and do things in a "Jewish" way...

Sounds really good!

In Europe I have lived in Spain, France, Italy and Luxembourg and I have met so many Brits and Americans living there speaking in English only. The ones who made an effort or enjoyed learning a new language were very rare.

I have no doubt that is your experience (although I met plenty that were the opposite), but I personally think that English speakers who do this are cheating themselves.  One of the most rewarding experiences I had was to try to learn one of the most difficult languages for English speakers to learn through immersion.  I never became fluent, but I plan to some day.  Most European languages take about three months for an English speaker to become fluent in, but Finnish takes two to three years.  Anyone who passes up the opportunity to learn a language through immersion, especially if they are learning a Germanic or Romance language as an English speaker is missing out.

I was about to point out to Navie that people who do the damned if you do, damned if you don't thing exist everywhere, and usually there is another motivation for their criticism than being helpful, genuinely confused, or even offended by a newcomer's behaviour.  It's a lot harder to deal with it when you're learning a new language and probably even harder than that when you're a self-conscious teenager.

In Europe I have lived in Spain, France, Italy and Luxembourg and I have met so many Brits and Americans living there speaking in English only. The ones who made an effort or enjoyed learning a new language were very rare.

Or were scared 15-year-olds thrown in with people who offered a choice:  French, German or Alsatian dialect.  And no internet in the late 80s and once you ran up the phone bill to $600 your mother reminded you that this was your idea and hung up the phone.

Sink or swim!  

If they used Rioplatense that would throw the bigots off the scent, wouldn't it? Or maybe make them worse!

One of my favourite Argentinian films is the gentle comedy "Sol De Ottoño" (Autumn Sun) with the always excellent Federico Luppi.

"Though outwardly at peace being middle-aged and single, a Jewish woman still places a personal ad in a local newspaper requesting the company of an older Jewish man. This warm, tender romantic drama follows what happens when her best respondent turns out to be a gentile. Until she discovered his religious affiliation, Clara was quite taken with Raul. Though she at first spurns him, she realizes she needs him. Her brother is about to visit her from Boston and she has been lying to him about being in a relationship. Fortunately, Raul goes along with the ruse that soon ceases to be a ruse."

It's a scream when she has to coach him to say and do things in a "Jewish" way...

I must see this!

Sounds really good!

It's great. Unfortunately I misspelled 'Otoño'. We are crazy about Argentinian films in our house, and we love Ricardo Darín as well.

one of the most difficult languages for English speakers to learn through immersion

People say that if you haven't learned Basque by the age of three, you never will properly.

People say that if you haven't learned Basque by the age of three, you never will properly.

I've heard that, and, having been in Basque country for all of 6 weeks before being moved on the Alscace, I'd say I'd have to agree.

Sounded like utter gibberish to me, and apparently not related to any other language on Earth.

Edited to add:  when I got to the village where I lived in Alscace, a staunchly Lutheran village, people were highly superstitious of Basque and the Basque language, saying the Devil had given them their language.

the melting pot).
I personally love British culture, and I don't think they are wrong when they say things like "left ten nant".  I just hope that when I accidentally say "loo ten ent", and they know what I mean, a big song and dance isn't made of it. 

I joined the US Air Force within 12 weeks of arriving in the US. Once when I was on guard duty I was approached by an officer and said something about 'the lef tenant', he did a double take and asked me where I was from and then he corrected me that it was 'lu tenant'
I already knew that so it was a slip of the tongue for me.

I honestly don't know much about Basque, and the difficulty thing is always going to be disputed (that's why I didn't say the most difficult language or even European language).  What makes Finnish a challenging European language for English speakers  is that it really isn't related to many Western and Central European languages.  It's definitely not related to the Scandinavian languages, although some Saami languages are influenced by Finnish and vice versa.  It's distantly related to Hungarian and in the Finno-Ugric group.

The structure of Finnish is nothing like English or even German, Spanish or French.  Instead of adding separate words for things like prepositions, they have suffixes and prefixes.  A word also changes for things like plural, possessive, if you're saying something like "let's go to", asking a question etc.  It's a phonetic language, so the spelling changes if the pronunciation changes at all.  So when you learn a noun, you are going to need to learn several forms of that noun.

http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/~fkarlsso/genkau2.html

That page gives over 2000 forms of the word kaupa which means shop (or store ).

It's a cool language, and very descriptive.  But it's a pain to learn.

What makes Finnish a challenging European language .....

One of my closest friends is Finnish, and once provided me with a sticky note with helpful Finnish translations.  Thus, I can say "hello," "one beer" (or two or three beers) and can utter a delightful variety of curse words, two of which do not have English equivalents, and were explained to me as "this one is one level worse than fcuk, and this other one is two levels worse than fcuk". 

One of my closest friends is Finnish, and once provided me with a sticky note with helpful Finnish translations.  Thus, I can say "hello," "one beer" (or two or three beers) and can utter a delightful variety of curse words, two of which do not have English equivalents, and were explained to me as "this one is one level worse than fcuk, and this other one is two levels worse than fcuk".  

Did one of the bad words start with a "v"?  If it did, it is worse than the f-word because it translates to the English word that a lot of people think is worse.  The odd thing is that one of their other biggies just translates to "the devil" and starts with a "p".  Satan is pretty bad as well.  

One of the funniest things you will learn quickly with Finnish curse words is their word for pi$$ and their word for six is just one vowel off.  Most foreigners learn to count as the equivalent of "One, two, three, four, five, pi$$, seven..."

That's funny because all of my close Mexican, Puerto Rican and Cuban friends have always told me they speak Spanglish out of habit.  Most of them where born and raised in the US and learned English in school the same as I did...and learned Spanish from their immigrated parents.

So in other words a completely different situation from someone who moves to another country and refuses to adapt to the language.  What was your point again? 

Legs Akimbo, Finnish must be such a cool language to learn, but I'd have to disagree that you can become fluent in a European language after three months if immersion.  It's a rarely talented person who can do that.  Most people would require at least a year, and adult learners would likely also need additional instruction.