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Topic: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK  (Read 1311 times)

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UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« on: January 04, 2010, 08:07:12 PM »
The seven men from Luton on trial for shouting and insulting returning British soldiers who were parading through a town. Where they immigrants? What difference does that make?
Well they also refused to stand when the judge entered the court room because he was not God?

See this article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/beds/bucks/herts/8439541.stm



Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2010, 08:15:30 PM »
I don't agree that they showed "disrespect for the UK". They don't agree with the UK's part in America's anti-Muslim war. They were entitled to state that in public. This prosecution should never have been brought.



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Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 09:20:05 PM »
They can be charged with actions likely to cause a breach of the peace.
And the disrespect is for not standing when the judge entered the court - for that they can probably be charged with contempt of court.
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Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2010, 07:56:35 AM »
I know of parades in the US where opponents of the marchers have expressed their opinions loudly and vocally - Gay Pride, Israeli Independence, etc. They didn't get arrested as long as they didn't resort to violence.

People have the right to express opposing opinions.

As for not standing before the judge, in US courts, protocol is adjusted to account for religous beliefs, e.g. you don't have to swear on the bible if your religion doesn't allow it.  I suppose it's the same in the UK?  I don't know enough about the defendant's religous beliefs to know if they really couldn't stand before the judge or were just being contemptuous.

ETA: Disapproving of an activity of the UK government does not equate to disrespect for the UK.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 07:58:30 AM by sweetpeach »


Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2010, 08:37:42 AM »
As for not standing before the judge, in US courts, protocol is adjusted to account for religous beliefs, e.g. you don't have to swear on the bible if your religion doesn't allow it.  I suppose it's the same in the UK?

You don't have to swear on the Bible in a British court if you don't want to, in fact there are some Christian sects that consider oaths to be wicked. You can "affirm" instead.

The Luton defendants claimed it was a 'grave and cardinal sin' to show anyone other than Allah respect by standing. Eventually, a compromise was reached where they would enter the court after her. However, some Muslim scholars say that there is nothing in the Koran that forbids standing in court to show respect. I know a Muslim who is a magistrate (and a mosque elder) and everybody has to stand when he comes in!

It is instructive to compare this with the situation in the Christian religion: there are branches that consider certain things throughly wicked, not always with very much Biblical foundation, and others that don't. Homosexuality, abortion, ordination of women, contraception, blood transfusion, spring to mind.




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Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2010, 09:52:32 AM »
The bible can be interpreted in many different ways. I assume the Koran as well.

Orthodox Jews also don't swear on the bible. It's considered to be a violation of the commandment to not use God's name in vain.


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Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2010, 12:16:43 PM »
I know of parades in the US where opponents of the marchers have expressed their opinions loudly and vocally - Gay Pride, Israeli Independence, etc. They didn't get arrested as long as they didn't resort to violence.

People have the right to express opposing opinions.

....


ETA: Disapproving of an activity of the UK government does not equate to disrespect for the UK.

I agree completely. 


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Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 02:50:43 PM »
I don't agree that they showed "disrespect for the UK". They don't agree with the UK's part in America's anti-Muslim war. They were entitled to state that in public. This prosecution should never have been brought.



How is it an anti-Muslim war? Please explain that. We pour billions of dollars of aid into predominantly Muslim countries every year.


Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2010, 03:10:39 PM »
How is it an anti-Muslim war? Please explain that. We pour billions of dollars of aid into predominantly Muslim countries every year.

The US is seen by many to have declared war on Islam. In particular, it blindly supports israel. Much of the aid goes to corrupt or puppet governments, and never reaches the people at the bottom.


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Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2010, 03:15:56 PM »
The US is seen by many to have declared war on Islam. In particular, it blindly supports israel. Much of the aid goes to corrupt or puppet governments, and never reaches the people at the bottom.


Right, and it's our fault that corruption is a problem in the Muslim world. I trust Britain has a foolproof strategy to get aid to "the people at the bottom." Care to share it with us?


Re: UK-Seven men from Luton show no respect for the judge or the UK
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2010, 03:24:13 PM »
Right, and it's our fault that corruption is a problem in the Muslim world. I trust Britain has a foolproof strategy to get aid to "the people at the bottom." Care to share it with us?


I don't think they do either. Perhaps you could lose the belligerent tone?


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