Pat Robertson, a "Christian".

I just found out that my friend's brother (and the friend of my brother) was killed in Haiti.  He was a Lutheran seminary student and the son of two pastors.  His mother is a former bishop.  I have known him since he was eight, and even though I didn't know him well and haven't seen him for years, I remember him as the sweetest, kindest little boy.  He used to counsel my brother through a lot of adolescent angst when they were in high school. 

I defy Pat Robertson, or anyone else, to find a better Christian than he was. 

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/14/haiti.seminarian.killed/

 

Very sorry to hear that.

This is such a tragedy.  I'm so sorry for your loss Historyenne. 

Pat Robertson is a jerk.  He's entitled to his views on Voodoo.  But taking joy out of the suffering of others is incredibly wrong and against the teachings of Jesus Christ.

So ... the Crusades? Were those true Christians? I'm just saying that someone can be a "true" Christian and do some pretty awful things, whether they're in the name of their religion or not. If you took the Bible literally (and a lot of these idiots seem to), it would appear to advocate some rather hateful things.

Let's be fair.  Muslim armies invaded and occupied Christian lands centuries before the Crusades even started.  But yes, extremists do some lousy things in the name of their religion.  The Crusades were supposed to be about advancing Christendom, but that was just a cover for the rich nobles of Europe to rob wealth and land off of the Semites.  And just like that, today you see extremist Muslims murdering people in the name of Islam.  Any Abrahamaic text taken literally could be used as a mandate for violence by the extremists.

"The carnage that the slaves wreaked in northern settlements, such as Acul, Limbé, Flaville, and Le Normand, revealed the simmering fury of an oppressed people. The bands of slaves slaughtered every white person they encountered. As their standard, they carried a pike with the carcass of an impaled white baby. Accounts of the rebellion describe widespread torching of property, fields, factories, and anything else that belonged to, or served, slaveholders. The inferno is said to have burned almost continuously for months."

THE HAITIAN REVOLUTION
The Slave Rebellion of 1791

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?cstdy:1:./temp/~frd_fsRv::

Perhaps this is what motivated Pat Robertson's comments?

Perhaps this is what motivated Pat Robertson's comments?

I think the only thing that motivated him was the possibility of getting himself in the news cycle for a few days.

You'd think that if God wanted to punish them he wouldn't have waited  over 200 years, after they were all dead.

Unless he was too busy creating all those fires and floods and hurricanes and diseases that he also uses to punish people.  

Any Abrahamaic text taken literally could be used as a mandate for violence by the extremists.

I don't think I said that members of other religions didn't do the same thing. But at the moment, we're not discussing Muslim (or any other religion's) zealots. We're talking about a man who claims to be a Christian and whose comments are based on the Bible.

I think the only thing that motivated him was the possibility of getting himself in the news cycle for a few days.

I think you might be right.

You'd think that if God wanted to punish them he wouldn't have waited  over 200 years, after they were all dead.

If he really wanted to punish us, there'd be more Pat Robertsons in the world.  

If he really wanted to punish us, there'd be more Pat Robertsons in the world.  

Hear! Hear! 

This is such a tragedy.  I'm so sorry for your loss Historyenne. 

Very sorry to hear that.

I'm so sorry, historyenne.

I'm so sorry, historyenne.

I'm sorry to hear this, historyenne.

I am so sorry this young man was killed in the earthquake. 

Thanks so much everyone. 

I never would have imagined that I could feel so sad over someone I barely knew.  But he was a really good friend to my brother and his sisters are really good friends to me.  I have never been religious myself, not by choice necessarily but because I just never felt drawn to religion or like I needed to have it in my life.  But Ben's family are the kind of people that made me wish I could be religious.  They are all so full of the joy and comfort of their faith, and never judge others, never proselytise even though they (the parents) are pastors.  When I was a fairly vocal atheist in high school, they still welcomed me to their house and their dinner table, and never made me feel uncomfortable or as though they disapproved of me.  Every time I get frustrated or angry over some intolerance or judgment disguised as "Christianity," I think about the Larsons and remember that there are lots of genuine, good, open-minded, tolerant Christians in the world.  The kind of people who try to improve the world through their own good works and good example and who never denigrate anyone regardless of their faith or lack of it.  Those are Christians in my book.   

I don't think I said that members of other religions didn't do the same thing. But at the moment, we're not discussing Muslim (or any other religion's) zealots. We're talking about a man who claims to be a Christian and whose comments are based on the Bible.

OK. Two definitions of Christian

Christian = person who believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ, belongs to a Christian Church, reads the New Testament, celebrates Christmas and Easter, etc.

Christian = person who believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ and follows a group of ethical beliefs that are associated with his teachings, e.g. "love they neighbor", "do unto others as you would  have them do unto you", etc.

Lots of words have more than one meaning. I don't see a problem here.

OK. Two definitions of Christian

Christian = person who believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ, belongs to a Christian Church, reads the New Testament, celebrates Christmas and Easter, etc.

Christian = person who believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ and follows a group of ethical beliefs that are associated with his teachings, e.g. "love they neighbor", "do unto others as you would  have them do unto you", etc.

Lots of words have more than one meaning. I don't see a problem here.

I understand your two definitions, but I think those two become very blurred at times. I'm sure Pat Robertson, for example, puts himself into both of those categories, and actually probably doesn't see a difference between the two.

Yes, it's very hard to exclude people on the basis of not being a True Christian when that is so subjective in the first place. Mother Theresa was a Christian, but so was Franco. We can't blind ourselves to reality - the equivalent would be me, as a socialist, claiming that Stalin had nothing to do with the left. Just because something is repugnant to you does not mean that it doesn't spring from the same ideas.

 If  a person believes that they are Christian and if they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ then they are a Christian whether they say or do hateful things.  I don't see that anyone has the right to judge other people on their 'good' Christianity.   Religion is a personal belief.  Nobody gets to decide whether or not you're worthy of believing it.

If  a person believes that they are Christian and if they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ then they are a Christian whether they say or do hateful things.  I don't see that anyone has the right to judge other people on their 'good' Christianity.   Religion is a personal belief.  Nobody gets to decide whether or not you're worthy of believing it.

Agreed. I personally think of these types of nut jobs as Christian extremists.