UK: Foreign student visas to be cut by UK

the students you see are legit, you don't see the ones that don't even attend. How much do 'we' lose by them not paying tax, thievery etc etc.?

Okay then -- how much?

Are there hard figures, supported by data, on exactly how big a problem illegitimate students are? Because these steps will adversely affect a large number of legitimate students, and it would be nice to know if this is necessary to solve a truly big problem or a problem that is not that large but caters to misguided popular perceptions.

Even if 'we lose' a certain amount to shady students, is this not overwhelmed by the positive amount of funds that come into the country thanks to legit students?

I completely agree that the government should go after the illegitimate schools, not individual students. FFS it's not that hard to find the dodgy schools at all. And legitimate schools are cooperating with weeding out dodgy students.

Anyway, nice job promoting the 'migrants are all tax cheats and thieves' meme.

I do think the proposed changes will reduce foreign student enrollment across the board. I would not have come here for postgrad studies if I could not work and I'm sure many others feel the same way. Foreign tuition averages about 10,000 pounds a year and basically subsidizes UK students. Why would the government want to jeopardize that funding in a recession???

Especially when, as also recently announced, they are slashing higher education budgets and many student slots and teaching positions will be cut -- even whole departments that do not bring in enough money.

But hey, who needs a Department of History when we can pander to knee-jerk populism?

So the 20 to 10 hour work week is across the board for all kinds of schools? Holy crap, what a stupid idea.

There are already rules in place about the level of English required for university students to begin their courses. They are not properly implemented in many cases but that's another matter. My husband has been teaching Indian and Middle Eastern students math for many years and complains about their low level of English, but the fees are gravy to the unis and really, this doesn't hurt anyone.

So the 20 to 10 hour work week is across the board for all kinds of schools? Holy crap, what a stupid idea.

Yes, I found it was hard enough to find employment as a student with the 20 hour restriction (mostly because employers just don't want to deal with the hassle of having to worry about it), at 10 hours I think you are basically making students unemployable.

There are already rules in place about the level of English required for university students to begin their courses. They are not properly implemented in many cases but that's another matter. My husband has been teaching Indian and Middle Eastern students math for many years and complains about their low level of English, but the fees are gravy to the unis and really, this doesn't hurt anyone.

Dedicated students can succeed in uni courses even if they are slightly under the B2 level, and just being in classes improves their English.  But it is nigh on impossible to learn English (or any other language) to B2 level without some species of study abroad.   

Didn't say all migrants. I said the non legit short course students. See this is where you fall apart. Read the comment, not what you want to hear. I never said too damn many foreigners. I said non English speaking people - not just foreign but actual UK citizens and EU citizens as well. But the EU bit is a whole different thing.

I was talking about the low level short courses for the 'English' learners. How much to they contribute?

No one has given me a decent argument regarding the £££.

I think there are loads of places outside of the UK that teach English to the TOEFL.

Fair dues to those that want to do English courses and have signed up for further study. But you anti types should take this up and present your case and ideas to people that can make a change.

I do take offense calling me knee jerk and populist because I state my feelings. Have you done anything to put your case across to the gov't other than come here and slag off people who don't agree and call me naive. Get real.

I'd say you are the naive one. Don't like my opinion, then do the block.
Don't like my attitude? Tuff! Don't like what the gov't has done? Then do something constructive rather than jump on the 'I'm knee jerking and part of the populist movement bandwagons'. Have you even bothered to write your MP and given the real decision makers a piece of your mind or offered them a constructive opinion or positive ideas? Have you offered them your experience of the situation? I doubt it it very seriously.

All I said in the beginning was I agree with the gov't.

TTFN

Locked so people can cool off.

Hey all I'd like to say sorry if I have come across aggressive and insensitive.

I understand that this subject is close to some of your hearts and as it's not so close to mine, I may have come across slightly harsh unnecessarily.

I'll step away and let ya'll continue in peace. Apologies for my attitude.

Hope we can remain friends.

AyouBob

Don't really understand why this is so controversial.  I don't think anyone is scapegoating students.  They're just taking steps to prevent and crack down on those who abuse student visas.  And there is a lot of abuse with regards to student visas.

As for English courses... back when I worked as a civil servant, a Bangladeshi gentleman approached me in my office, inquiring about English classes.  It wasn't my job description to help him find that and it had absolutely nothing to do with my role, but I was in a good mood that day so I helped him.  He was insisting that it was free of charge as well.  I was really skeptical about this.  Surely enough, I phoned one of the local councils, and they ran English classes.  To my surprise they were also free of charge for him as well.  So I'm just wondering why some of you think it's big business (and not a drag on taxpayers) for foreigners to come here to learn to speak English when we have councils out there who are offering English classes for absolutely free?

So I'm just wondering why some of you think it's big business (and not a drag on taxpayers) for foreigners to come here to learn to speak English when we have councils out there who are offering English classes for absolutely free?

You're confusing two different things. Those free ESOL classes are only available to persons already legally in the country with documented low income such as means-tested state benefit or asylum seeker's support.

Foreign students subsidise British and long term residents' education.  There are ways of ensuring the student visa system isn't being abused without removing an entire sector of education which may then threaten later enrolment in uni by the same students (who subsidise the system even more).