I wish I thought of that before: Making a decision, experience from Expats?

Hello everyone,

I've mentioned it in my intro post, but I'll repeat here so people know where I'm coming from.  I met my fiance about 5 years ago.  We evolved from being friends to dating, and from dating to engagement last December (yay!). 

Anyways, we're now in the territory of deciding who will move where (him to the US or me to the UK), and we're trying to research as much as possible so we can make an informed decision as to the best move for us.

We're trying to cover all the angles (financial things like moving costs, job prospects/salaries, debt, taxes, etc and subjective things like quality of life, culture, family one of us would have to leave behind, etc), but I just can't help but have a nagging feeling that we're forgetting something.

Neither of us want to make the move, then encounter something that would make us go, "Darn, I wish I thought of that before."

For folks who may have been in a similar situation, was there one thing that you wish you thought of in hindsight to take into consideration that you missed?

Or, conversely, was there one thing that totally made the decision for you?

Thanks in advance!

(note to mods - this seemed like the best forum for advice/experience from Expats; if not, please move to the correct one, and apologies in advance)

My one thing is probably the proximity of/relative assistance provided by extended family.  We're in the process of going back to the UK so that we can be closer to my DH's family (although all of the other things you mentioned also figure in that decision).  If you're planning to start your own family that could make a big difference.

That said, I'd stress that the decision doesn't have to be "forever" the way it feels the first time.  We've lived in the UK together for two years, then in the US for 10, and now back to the UK - hopefully for good, but we made provisions to make our return even easier (DH will have US citizenship before we leave).

International families are not the easiest logistically! But that's what makes them so interesting.

Good luck!

Have you seen the 'things to think about before you move' thread?

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=25243.0

The biggest decision for us was that my hubby has a great job in the civil service (almost 20 years), and mine was not as good. At the time, I thought it would be easier for me to find a job in the UK, than him find a job in the US. Plus he's a city boy, and I lived in the rural areo of the Oregon Coast.

Though I'm still looking for a job, I still think it was the best decision to move to UK.

we based our decision on a few things:
my family situation isnt that great
he has been on his job longer and its more stable than mine
he owns a actual home where i owned a mobile home
he has two huge dogs and i have two chihuahuas
plus it is less costly and easier for me to move

Way back when, we took almost a year to make a decision.  Lots of lists of pros and cons and in the end, the final deciding factor was; the company we worked for was having trouble and we could move in with my parents if it went under.  So we moved to the US.  And yes, I sometimes wish we'd moved to the UK but I don't lose any sleep over it.

My fiance has cancer so NHS was a major factor in us choosing the UK. There were other things but that was the main thing for sure.

There are always going to be a lot of pros and cons, and one person's Pro is another person's Con so it is highly individual. To answer your question about  "Darn, I wish I thought of that before".... my response is A LOT. Whether you move to the UK or he moves to the US, there will be a lot of surprises in store. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing - just something you can't plan for and something that comes along with the adventure of it all.

I did take a glance at the "Things to think about before you move" thread while I was a lurker, and we've already addressed some of those things, or they are on our lists of to be addressed.

I just can't shake that nagging feeling I'm forgetting something.  I'm that person who goes to visit a friend for the weekend who only lives 2 hours away, and after an hour of driving, I start thinking, "Did I remember PJs?"

Our cursory surface analysis of our situation is (by no means comprehensive yet):

I've got the better job and better salary.  I've also got better prospects for career advancement.  He's not fond of his job, but doesn't think he'll be able to get a new one, even if he moves to America.  Additionally, if he moves here, he believes it will be much harder for him to find a job as he doesn't have many qualifications.  If I moved to the UK, we are guessing I could find a job and start generating income faster and easier than vice versa.

I've got an apartment and would have to do something about everything in it - store, ship, sell, give.  He's been living with his parents, so he would have much less stuff to figure out what to do with it.  If he moves, less stuff to ship - and we figure less costly.

We both have debt (student loans for both of us, medical debt for me) we would have to grapple with, although if I moved to the UK, my debt would be paid of faster than if he moved here - assuming the current pound/dollar conversion rate holds. 

Both our families are supportive of us moving anywhere, so long as we're happy together.  Though, his family is more able to travel than mine, due to health problems.  But we would have no problems traveling back to the US to visit.

He's not a fan of losing his 5 weeks holiday and generous allowances of sick time compared to what Americans typically get.  He's absolutely not a fan of losing the NHS.  I have good health insurance through my employer, but I also have a history of chronic illnesses and hospital visits and despite having health insurance, still managed to accumulate a hefty amount of medical debt.  The NHS is attractive...

It seems easier to move to the UK than to the US.  From what we understand of the process and fees (granted, what we've tried to research ourselves so far), him moving to the US would be more expensive, and the process would be longer and more complicated than me moving to the UK.

Whatever decision we make, it just seems so final.

Obviously, it's not, and if need be, there's always the opportunity to move back, but it still feels rather...conclusive.

First I just want to say good on you for taking the time to really stop and think about where you and him want to live and not just jumping in.   


A few things that helped out decision was the fact that DH had the better job and was more situated here.  Where as I had moved around a lot and would be fine with getting a part time job while finding something bettter as I've always been an odd jobs kinda gal.  I also didn't have much stuff accumilated because I moved around a lot so that helped as well.  I regards to all of the above and YOUR situation I would think staying the US would be easier.

Another reason we decided for me to move here was because of how hard it would be to get him over to the US.   Personally though I still don't see how hard it would be.  Yes it's a bit more expensive but loads of people have done it in the past and if it's something that means a lot to you and him then it's worth it.

One thing we did NOT think about was how hard it would be for me to leave my family.  I have a sister who is my best friend and she has 3 kids.  I also have a brother with one wee boy.  My parents are still together and they all live within a few hours of each other.  His sister is now living in Boston.  His mum lives over 4 hours away and his dad (not my favourite person) lives elsewhere as they've recently split.   It's because of this reason we're looking at maybe going back to the States in the next few years.  In regards to your situation I would say that lends itself to staying the states as well.  You don't realize how much money it is to fly back home and how loooong that flight is until you do it more than 3 times in a year.

And lastly the NHS.  Is it free?  yes.  Is it better? no.   This coming from someone who when they lived in the states didn't have healthcare for almost 5 years because of her jobs.  I thought I would love it in the UK with the free healthcare.  Thought I would actually get a few of these issue sorted out.  I arrived in Jan of last year.  Went to the GP in Feb was finally given an appointment to get blood taken 2 months later.  After that was given an appointment with a Gyno 3 months after that.  So by July I finally met with a man who could care less that I the birth control I was once on for my PCOS made me so anxious and depressed that I had some deeply disturbing thoughts.  Instead he prescribed me another birth control that when I did research on it caused depression and anxiety WORSE than that of the Nuva Ring I was on. 

I tell you this just so you don't get your hopes up about the NHS and even more importantly don't use it as a reason for coming here.

I can't tell you one way or the other where to live.  Only that to me, personally, it seems as though staying in the US would be easier for you.  I suppose I could be a bit biased though as I can't wait to go back.

Good luck in whatever you decide, congrats on meeting someone so special they're making you question all of this and let us know how it goes!

Thanks for the advice and perspective BuckeyeJenn. 

I admit I have only experienced the NHS a few times, but my visits were for urgent care so I was seen relatively quickly.  I shouldn't judge all the NHS on those limited experiences. 

From my personal experience in that states, I'm not sure the waiting times would be significantly different from where I live now.  While I can usually see my primary care physician whenever I request an appointment, if he refers me to a specialist, I've found those waiting times to be anywhere from 3 to 6 months for an appointment.  (for a gynecologist, immunologist, gastroenterologist, endocrinologist)

In your experience with the NHS, do only specialists accrue the long wait times, or all doctors (even primary care physicians, or the equivalent)?  If one has private insurance, does that lessen wait times?  (some jobs I've been looking at in the UK offer private insurance)

As for family - both of us are trying to imagine life with our family and friends on the other side of the pond, but I think we'll both only "get it" when we've made the move.  Currently, I live about 3 hours away from my mom and 6 hours away from my dad.  I talk on the phone and email them frequently, but I do not visit them very frequently due to my and their work schedules.  My fiance lives near all his family (mom, brother, brother's girlfriend) - all within an hour's drive.  He sees his brother (and his girlfriend) several times a month. 

Though if my job ends up being in Cambridge (if I get a company transfer), he'll move with me and then both of us will be far away from family...

Ahhh!  Enough variables to make one's head hurt!   

(we knew it would be like this though )

Though if my job ends up being in Cambridge (if I get a company transfer), he'll move with me and then both of us will be far away from family...

I'll be living 20 minutes outside Cambridge, and a lot of other people here are in that area - - so even if you're away from his family you'll be able to have a few people to get you started on building your uk life up.

It seems easier to move to the UK than to the US.  From what we understand of the process and fees (granted, what we've tried to research ourselves so far), him moving to the US would be more expensive, and the process would be longer and more complicated than me moving to the UK.

Whatever decision we make, it just seems so final.

Obviously, it's not, and if need be, there's always the opportunity to move back, but it still feels rather...conclusive.

Also - I've immigrated both ways, and for what its worth... its a pain in the butt no matter what. I wouldn't make decisions based on the logistical paperwork side of things since nightmares happen going both ways, and I'm proof of that.

Also also - you'll stress yourself out like mad if you think any of this is final... coming from someone who immigrated to the uk, then immigrated to the us, and is now immigrating back to the uk.

In your experience with the NHS, do only specialists accrue the long wait times, or all doctors (even primary care physicians, or the equivalent)?  If one has private insurance, does that lessen wait times?  (some jobs I've been looking at in the UK offer private insurance)

I only had a quick, yet good experience with the NHS. I had been visiting my DB for 3 months and stupid me didn't pack enough birth control, so I had to go down to the clinic to get some. I waited for about 20 minutes and then went in got weighed, filled out some forms and then the nurse gave me the birth control that was as close to mine as possible. I walked out of there paying nothing.  And of course, the birth control that I had asked my mom to send over (2 weeks earlier) had been dropped off by the post when I got back.

And I'm not sure if the NHS has anything to with dental, but DB needed a dental emergency and we went to the dentist, waited about 30 minutes and then the extraction took about 45 minutes and it was only 60 quid. There is NO way that an extraction in the US would cost $120 (roughly)!

I was very pleasantly surprised!

I tell you this just so you don't get your hopes up about the NHS and even more importantly don't use it as a reason for coming here.

And the other side of the coin, Aquila, is that some of us (like myself, who have lived in the UK and used the NHS for over 20 years) have had nothing but good experiences, and no complaints with the NHS.