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Topic: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws  (Read 7956 times)

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Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« on: March 28, 2010, 04:15:56 AM »
Was searching around the site and couldn't seem to find anything on this, but if I missed it I do apologize in advance. I'll hopefully be moving to London this fall for grad school and have a very loving Pitt Bull that's been one of my best friends for almost 6 years now. I was confused by the "Dangerous Dog Ban", it seemed as if Pitt Bulls were allowed to be in London as long as they are leashed, neutered and muzzled when in public? Am I going crazy? Are you allowed to bring a Pitt Bull into the country as long as everything is met under the PETS obligations and such and hes kept on a leash in public? Or are they completely banned and not allowed in the UK? I've read it over and over and still seems unclear to me and extremely worried that I'd bring him there and he'd be detained or even worse taken away from me for good.

And if they are banned completely do they allow Am Staffs (American Staffordshire Terriers)? Think its weird they list Pitt Bulls but not Am Staffs.  I've dealt with breed specific bans when I lived in Florida and think its honestly horrible but thats another issue for another post haha Thanks in advance ! =)




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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2010, 12:03:38 PM »
Well I tried to find the answer for you and can see why you are frustrated. My understanding is that it is not illegal to own a pitt bull but it is illegal to breed, sell or trade one. With this view (not getting into if it is a correct view or not) I can see where they would not want people to bring new pitt bulls into the country-- but I can not see anywhere at all where it says you can't or can bring one into the country.

I think you might need to be making some phone calls.....Good Luck!


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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2010, 01:30:54 PM »
The problem is that an American Staffordshire Terrier is not a recognized breed in the UK, which is why its hard to find specific information about the breed's status. It comes down to if the dog has "pit bull characteristics", which IMO most Staffys do  I have a good friend who tried to bring her Staffy into the country and was not allowed.   http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/AnimalsAndPets/DG_180098


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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2010, 05:26:12 PM »
Thanks for all the info! You guys are great. Its def a confusing legislation.. I guess my best bet is going to be pick up the phone and contact DERFA or something along those lines to get an exact answer...but judging by all the info you guys have given me its not looking so good for bringing Apache with me..  :-\\\\  And I dont think Id want to chance him getting taken away from me or locked in a quarantine or something ridiculous..or even worse - euthanized.

Mirrajay: So they told your friend she was not allowed to bring her AmStaff into the country because they're banned?

Thanks again for all the info! You guys rock!


Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2010, 07:45:49 PM »
Quote
Dogs that are banned in the UK

What is a ‘type’ of banned dog?

Whether your dog is a banned type depends on what your dog actually looks like, rather than the breed or name by which it is called.

If your dog matches many of the characteristics of a Pit Bull Terrier, it may be treated as a banned type, no matter what type or breed its parents were. (Cross-bred and mongrel dogs can have the characteristics of a Pit Bull Terrier.)
Pit Bull type dogs

Pit Bull types can be called:

    * American Staffordshire Terriers
    * Irish Staffordshire Terriers
    * Irish Blue or Red Nose

Some kinds of American Bulldogs have been found to be Pit Bull types.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/AnimalsAndPets/DG_180098





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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2010, 09:39:11 AM »


Mirrajay: So they told your friend she was not allowed to bring her AmStaff into the country because they're banned?



Right.  The law extends to "pit pull types" as listed in the link in my previous post.  It really will depend on what your dog looks like.  On the very off-chance that your AmStaff does LOOK like a pit bull  (I cant say I have ever seen one that doesnt), then there may be a chance that he would be allowed. 

What state do you live in currently?  I may have some resources for you if you need to rehome your dog.


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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 07:16:53 PM »
I was frustrated with this too, and wondered how arbitrary the decision is, and if you can ask for a second judgment. We have a neutered male mix who has scars from being in a fire. I've run into several people who've decided that any dog with scars is a fighter, and therefore should be put down as dangerous. Even when I can produce his 92% ATT score, his nursing home therapy dog certificate, or pics of him sleeping with my cats lying on him like furniture.

Does anyone know if there is a UK version of the American Temperance Test, and if you can apply for it before you come over?
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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 08:48:07 PM »
It's strange, too, because I've seen a few dogs in my neighborhood that definitely look like small pit bulls (not sure what type of dog they are), my best friend has 3 of them, so I definitely know what they look like! And hers would possibly lick someone to death rather than harm them, but.... as you said, it's a subject for another thread. Sorry it looks like you won't be able to bring your best bud with you.  :(


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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 12:32:12 PM »
It's strange, too, because I've seen a few dogs in my neighborhood that definitely look like small pit bulls (not sure what type of dog they are), my best friend has 3 of them, so I definitely know what they look like! And hers would possibly lick someone to death rather than harm them, but.... as you said, it's a subject for another thread. Sorry it looks like you won't be able to bring your best bud with you.  :(

They are probably Staffordshire Bull Terrier, rather than the American Staffordshire Terrier, and they are not banned in the UK.

Sillybadger, even if a dog is classified as a "pit bull breed", a judge does have the right to exempt him from the ban although it looks like this can only be done after the police have tried to sieze a dog.  You cannot request that this be done prior to a court order being issued.
 
I dont think that the USDA will even sign the necessary paperwork knowing that your AmStaff falls under the list of banned dogs in the UK.

Having him classified as a therapy dog may change things.  You might try contacting these people to see if they know anything about Staffies as therapy dogs: http://www.petsastherapy.org/
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 12:41:47 PM by mirrajay »


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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2010, 03:22:51 PM »
Sillybadger, even if a dog is classified as a "pit bull breed", a judge does have the right to exempt him from the ban although it looks like this can only be done after the police have tried to sieze a dog.  You cannot request that this be done prior to a court order being issued. 
I dont think that the USDA will even sign the necessary paperwork knowing that your AmStaff falls under the list of banned dogs in the UK.
Having him classified as a therapy dog may change things.  You might try contacting these people to see if they know anything about Staffies as therapy dogs: http://www.petsastherapy.org/

Thanx for the link; that's a good idea to try. He's not an AmStaffie; he's a boxer/APBT/lab mix. He's far too tall and his chest is too narrow to be a bully breed, but even some professionals who should know better here will point at any dog with a wide head or brindle fur and say "OMG! Pitbull!".

This is a good illustration of why I'm concerned about going on looks - I use it in an educational presentation I do on APBT Myths & The Media, and have had police and animal control officers and vets take 4-5 tries to get it right:

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

My vet said he was fine with listing him as a boxer/lab mix on his paperwork, but if looks weighs in more than anything else, it could be a problem. I don't want someone to decide my dog should be dead before I could get an exemption.
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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2010, 04:53:39 PM »
Does your dog look like an APBT?    I wonder what a DNA test would show?  Perhaps it would should show that he's majority boxer/lab?  I dont know what the rule is about mixes - do they have to be over 50% "pit bull" to be considered dangerous?  May be something worth looking into.   


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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2010, 09:10:46 PM »
Does your dog look like an APBT?   

That's the trick - it depends on who's making the judgment call. He's brindle and has a wide mouth and head. I've been an APBT/AMstaff advocate/rehabber for 20 years, and given the presentation and that "Find The Pit" test to John Q Everyman and animal care/service/enforcement professionals alike. The average number of tries to identify the pitbull for the pros is 3-6 guesses.

Up until a few years ago, the animal control department in the county I used to live in had a mandatory euthanasia policy on boxers, mastiffs, bull terriers, Bordeaux, and anything else over 35 lbs that came in with a brindle coat because "they're pitbulls", end of discussion.

The pity of it is, the 22" burn scar down the middle of his back is what sets most people off thinking he got it fighting, even though it looks nothing like what you see on a dog that's been unlucky enough to be put in a ring. He got the burns because a rotten dirtbag poured gas on him and lit him, and it still wasn't enough to give him any defensive behavior triggers other than what any normal dog would have. He's not even afraid of fire now. We're the only safe home he's had, and he's been with us for 4 of his 7 years. He makes a great therapy animal because when people find out what he's been through, even though he's a dog they see someone who's been in a worse place than they are, who understands that life can be really bad, and they relate to him like they can't always relate to other people.

His tendency to plunk down on his back with his feet in the air and audibly fart and burp contributes real well too.
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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2010, 09:28:53 PM »
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/AnimalsAndPets/DG_180098

Sillybadger - the website clearly states that if an animal looks like it has pitbull characteristics that he's going to be allowed into the UK, no matter what type or breed its parents were.

Sorry :(


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Re: Trying to understand the Dangerous Dog laws
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2010, 08:53:26 AM »
That just stinks.  >:( I don't understand why certain breeds of dogs should be banned. Pit bulls get a very bad reputation just because some jerks choose to abuse them and fight them and treat them badly. As a person who has been bitten by a dog, who wasn't a "dangerous breed," I don't see how they think this is helping anyone. Any dog could be aggressive, no matter what the breed. My grandma's chihuahua is meaner and than my best friend's pit bulls!  ::)


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