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Topic: state domicile questions  (Read 798 times)

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state domicile questions
« on: April 12, 2010, 01:00:13 PM »
I've assumed for years that I was fine if I filed my federal taxes, but I didn't need to worry about my Idaho taxes as I had no income or residence in ID.  I've since heard some on UKY say that even if you've left a state, you are almost certainly domiciled there still and may have to file.

I don't think this does apply to me though, does it?  I moved to Idaho for a job.  Stayed there for 5.5 years.  Have no family ties in the state, no bank accounts, no memorabilia stored away, no property.  I packed up my entire life and moved to the UK.  My driving license has even expired.

While I was looking at this, I did a little digging and found this document.  http://tax.idaho.gov/pubs/EBR00641_11-25-2002.pdf  While it does seem to say that ID is a state that counts domicile and residence as different things.  I don't see that I have anything that would make me count as still being domiciled there.  I don't need to file anywhere saying I've changed my domicile, do I?  Wouldn't I just show the complete lack of ties to ID if the question came up down the road. 

From how I read the doc, I think even if I were technically domiciled there, I don't need to file as I've not been present in ID for the time frame required in a 15 month period (haven't spent a single day there in the last 3.5 years since coming to the UK).  Sorry if the questions seem daft.  I'm just trying to sort out my US taxes and I'm feeling completely overwhelmed.


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Re: state domicile questions
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 01:10:51 PM »
It totally depends on the state and event then things get confusing.  Some documents from PA seem to suggest everyone needs to file taxes if that was your last state of residence in the US, but others clearly say only if x,y,z.   ::)

I own no property, or the rest of x,y,z so I am not going to file.  If they want to come after me years later I will just hire an attorney and get them to make a deal.  PA seems to have a tax amnesty every year anyway. 


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Re: state domicile questions
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 08:42:56 AM »
I called the tax line in Pennsylvania and was told that since I no longer lived there, didn't work there nor owned property there, that I wasn't domiciled there and thus didn't have to pay taxes. 


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Re: state domicile questions
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 12:17:57 PM »
That is what I thought, but then they have a tax Q&A and on that is says that if your last place of residence was PA in the US then you are still considered resident there if you move overseas.

But the FAQ thing is huge and does look as offical as the leaflet I found so I downloaded the leaflet to my computer and if they come after me I will use that as evidence.   ;)



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Re: state domicile questions
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2010, 07:41:18 PM »
There are "badges" of domicile. Page 3 of California FTB Publication 1031 http://search.forkus.com/d/publication-1031-guidelines.htm will give you some of them.

The longer you stay out of a state, and the more permanent your status in a foreign country (visa, citizenship) and the more your life is centred around that foreign country (family, assets, employment, life) the harder it is for any US state to claim that you remain domiciled there.

But conventional wisdom has it that it is best to assert a domicile in another US state or territory (one without income tax or with a safe haven rule for nonresidents) before moving abroad: get a driving license, library card, bank account, voter registration, etc.


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Re: state domicile questions
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 07:04:13 PM »
There are "badges" of domicile. Page 3 of California FTB Publication 1031 http://search.forkus.com/d/publication-1031-guidelines.htm will give you some of them.

The longer you stay out of a state, and the more permanent your status in a foreign country (visa, citizenship) and the more your life is centred around that foreign country (family, assets, employment, life) the harder it is for any US state to claim that you remain domiciled there.

But conventional wisdom has it that it is best to assert a domicile in another US state or territory (one without income tax or with a safe haven rule for nonresidents) before moving abroad: get a driving license, library card, bank account, voter registration, etc.

Arguing one is domiciled in one of the nations of the UK can have very bad consequences for UK IHT and income tax purposes.  A dual US/UK perspective needs to be taken of this question.


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Re: state domicile questions
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 09:21:54 PM »
Arguing one is domiciled in one of the nations of the UK can have very bad consequences for UK IHT and income tax purposes.  A dual US/UK perspective needs to be taken of this question.

Guya, I have absolutely no idea what you mean by any of that.  Do you mind explaining?  I'm clueless at tax stuff.  I do, however, have absolutely no ties--not a single one, to the state I left.  I had only gone there in the first place because of being transferred by my employer from one state to another.  I left no ties, property, family, belongings, anything.  I have absolutely no intentions of ever returning and don't even know if I'll be able to ever visit again.  I have spent one week total in the USA since moving here 3.5 years ago, and that was for my stepdad's funeral in another state.

I don't understand how it can be argued I'm not domiciled here when considering all that, you look at my life here.  I've bought a house here--in my name, have a husband here and soon to be two British children.  I will obtain British citizenship within months, and I have employment and my own business here.  Why does it upset international relations to say I'm tied to the UK and not Idaho?  From what I read of Idaho's own document that I posted earlier, they would not consider me to be domiciled there at all.


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Re: state domicile questions
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 08:48:35 AM »
Arguing one is domiciled in one of the nations of the UK can have very bad consequences for UK IHT and income tax purposes.  A dual US/UK perspective needs to be taken of this question.

I just posted a lengthy explanation in another thread, entitled "Dual citizenship and UK taxes", on why this is not necessarily so, linking to the leading US state case on the issue, taught to every US law student who studies Conflict of Laws: http://www.uniset.ca/other/css/182NW227.html

I am not an accountant but a tax lawyer, and this is the point: domicile not only has different meanings under English/Scottish/NI law from what it has under US state law, but at least in the USA it does not have a single meaning for different purposes: Does Domicil Bear a Single Meaning? (a 1955 article by the rapporteur of the Second Restatement, Conflict of Laws).

Putting aside the not unimportant question of whether a UK tax inspector might be ignorant of all this and use the assertion against you (unlikely in my experience once the definitional difference is explained), status for the purpose of the tax laws of a US state has nothing to do with status in the United Kingdom. Wait, there's more: US states are not bound by federal tax treaties with foreign countries.

I have a daughter who has never iived in the USA and yet, under English law, she is almost certainly domiciled for purposes of English law in New York State, a place I have not lived in since the early 1970s. And under New York law I am domiciled either in Florida or in England; probably the latter for most purposes.

When it is said that "one can only have a single domicile" that is wrong: both domestically (US) as Professor Reese proved, and internationally (because, treaty tiebreaker rules aside, domicile is simply defined differently in the USA on the one hand, and other Common-Law systems on the other. And still differently in Civil-Law countries (Louisiana, and less relevantly Florida, both have a facility for registration of domicile the way many or most Civil-Law countries do -- but they are optional).

Here's a domestic US state-tax example of the issue, interesting because it involved a former director of the Maryland state tax board: http://www.loislaw.com/advsrny/doclink.htp?alias=MDCASE&cite=397+A.2d+1009

So: it is true that conceding acquisition of domicile of choice in England, Scotland or N.I. can have disastrous consequences for IHT and unremitted income (with just perhaps a workaround via hybrid entities deemed corporations in one country and partnerships in another, if the IR35 issue can be finessed). But claiming to have left one US state for good (or "indefinitely), preferably in favour of another US state or territory prior to moving to the UK, has little or no impact on one's domicile status here.

Becoming naturalised in the UK establishes one further "badge" of domicile that a UK tax inspector could use. But, independent spousal domicile notwithstanding (Domicile and Matrimonial Proceedings Act 1973) UK tax inspectors operate on the basis of a rebuttable assumption that spouses do share a domicile, and have told me that they do not (unless contrary facts come to their attention) seek to impose IHT on the estates of spouses who arguably have separate domiciles (one UK and one foreign).

For long-term residents of the UK other than diplomats and visiting forces (both of which, at least in the case of the US, have a 5-year assignment limit anyway) the issue is mooted by the "deemed domicile" rules (17 out of 20 years for IHT, 7 out of 9 for remittance basis).

But you knew all that already.

Sorry for intervening; I thought it was useful to put all that on the record and now I'll go away.


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Re: state domicile questions
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2010, 08:56:41 AM »
CORRECTION: Sorry, I cited from memory, and then linked to, the wrong case. Toll v. Moreno concerned in-state tuition. The correct case for a dispute as to domicile is Controller of the Treasury v. Machiz, http://uniset.ca/other/css/399A2d946.html


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