Working on a Tier 4 Visa

Hi all,

I'm wondering if there's a way around this (in the most legal terms possible) restriction of hours. I'll be starting my dissertation in a month and it's due at the end of September. From my understanding, despite the rest of my uni being on holiday, dissertation writing is still equivalent to term-time restrictions of hours I'm allowed to work. Of course, I had to search every site in order to find out about that, which makes me feel like a lot of students might assume they're able to work full time during this period anyway...

I was able to find that info on UKCISA: "if you are supposed to research and write a dissertation or thesis while other students are on holiday, this is term-time for you and you must not work more than 20 hours a week. However, if your tutor or supervisor agrees that you can take a break for some of that period and is happy to confirm in writing that this time is a holiday for you, you can work full-time for the duration of that agreed break."

Anyway, that being said, I've been offered a full-time temporary job that will overlap with the last two months of my dissertation writing. While it's possible that I could finish my dissertation two months early, and it's possible one of my tutors would be willing to confirm in writing that I'm on holiday for that period, I'm still worried that I could be breaching the terms of my visa. I realise the home office can't keep track of how many hours everyone is working at any point in time, but I have every intention to settle within the UK after finishing my degree and don't want to risk anything.

Does anyone have some insight, opinion or experience in this matter?

(I'll just note again that it's only a temporary, not permanent, position to cover an employee's sabbatical; I was offered the job since I completed a short work experience with the company.)

Many thanks!

Lisa

I'm not 100% sure on this, so take whatever i say with a grain of salt....

but, I think you should be fine. When I was on a study abroad program in the UK, I was eligible to work up to 20 hrs/week.  There were a few weeks when I worked like 21 or 22 hours, but it never turned out to be a problem...but this was about 3 years ago, and I know that things have very much changed since then.

Hopefully someone else will come around with some more useful/recent experience or advice with this.. But it sounds like the perfect opportunity to get some more experience in your field.

Thanks for that info. I can't imagine they keep close watch on this sort of thing, and it's obviously only trackable through accounting, National Insurance, etc. I expect the issue only comes up if they're reviewing your record for another visa and they have reason to be suspect of you. All the same, it's not something I want to be deported for. 

I've received the suggestion of asking the company to simply pay me for 20 hours a week, even though I'd work 40, which would actually be fine by me (perhaps classifying the other 20 hours as internship or voluntary). It seems a bit illegal, and I'm not sure the company would be keen on that idea, but it'd mean they get some cheap labour! 

I've received the suggestion of asking the company to simply pay me for 20 hours a week, even though I'd work 40, which would actually be fine by me (perhaps classifying the other 20 hours as internship or voluntary). It seems a bit illegal, and I'm not sure the company would be keen on that idea, but it'd mean they get some cheap labour! 

I'm not so sure that's a valid suggestion, since you'd still be working forty hours/week....Since you wouldn't be breaking any immigration laws anyway, (provided that you got a letter from your tutors), I would just work the 40 hours, and get paid for 40 hours. 

Also, I'm not sure on how things work for those that were already given student visas, but I know that they are changing Tier 4 so that students can only work 10 hours/week during term time...I'm just not sure when this comes into effect. 

Hope this helps!

Also, I'm not sure on how things work for those that were already given student visas, but I know that they are changing Tier 4 so that students can only work 10 hours/week during term time...I'm just not sure when this comes into effect. 

That came into affect either last month or the month before, but only for people who didn't have their visas prior to April 6th (I think). And it's only restricting the number of hours people can work if they're on a course that isn't of degree level. I had a near heart attack when I read the changes a few months ago until I hit that clause, lol.

Thanks for the advice! I'll just have to convince one of my tutors to write me a letter and maybe try to finish that dissertation two months early. I can do serious research and write 12,000 - 15,000 words by the end of July, right? 

Thanks for the advice! I'll just have to convince one of my tutors to write me a letter and maybe try to finish that dissertation two months early. I can do serious research and write 12,000 - 15,000 words by the end of July, right? 

You can try, at least .

My masters thesis was 15,000 words... started it in April 2007 and finally submitted it in late December 2007 (I probably could have submitted in October, but I was working from home by then and I got lazy ).

My masters thesis was 15,000 words... started it in April 2007 and finally submitted it in late December 2007 (I probably could have submitted in October, but I was working from home by then and I got lazy ).

That's the trouble - I'm already feeling lazy! Particularly since I'm frustrated with my course and just want to move on to employment. This does not bode well for my degree, lol.

You can try, at least .

My masters thesis was 15,000 words... started it in April 2007 and finally submitted it in late December 2007 (I probably could have submitted in October, but I was working from home by then and I got lazy ).

Well now I know that i'll have to get started early! And I haven't even started yet 

That's the trouble - I'm already feeling lazy! Particularly since I'm frustrated with my course and just want to move on to employment. This does not bode well for my degree, lol.

Hi! I was just curious as to why you are frustrated with your course. I'm attending LCC in the fall for the ma in publishing so I'm just wondering about the reviews for it. Most people I've talked to really enjoy the course but i know there are some issues going on with LCC and they are making me nervous... Thanks!

Hi! I was just curious as to why you are frustrated with your course. I'm attending LCC in the fall for the ma in publishing so I'm just wondering about the reviews for it. Most people I've talked to really enjoy the course but i know there are some issues going on with LCC and they are making me nervous... Thanks!

The issues going on with LCC and the whole Uni of Arts is the fact that they're trying to cut expenditures. As far as I can tell, this won't massively affect the MA in Publishing, so I wouldn't worry too much about the problems LCC is facing.

As for the course, it has its ups and downs. (I'm on the book pathway, but this can still apply to the magazine pathway as well.) I've felt that some of the classes were poorly taught, which was disappointing, and some of the tutors need to work on their organisational/communication skills. Our course reps have brought up many issues with the tutors, though, and hopefully they will be resolved by next year. Some lectures were really good, and the visiting industry speakers are great. Other good things are industry visits that the course arranges and the fact that the tutors are focused on helping the students succeed and get jobs in the industry. So while I've spent a lot of time frustrated at aspects of the course, I appreciate that it's provided more opportunities to get experience in publishing that I otherwise would not have had. Also, it's not a particularly hard MA. It's stressful, intense and there's a lot of work, but it's manageable (probably much easier than an MA in other subjects). 

Feel free to contact me if you want any other info on the MA or LCC!

back to the original post.... I am about 90% sure you can figure something out.  Let me explain...

You CAN NOT work 40 hours while writing your dissertation.  You CAN NOT work 20 hours and volunteer 20 hours while writing your dissertation.  Whether it is paid or unpaid, it still counts as work.

You can finish you dissertation before you start working and then work 40 hours

You can also ask for holiday which allows you to work.  I am not exactly sure how this works but I remember reading about it.  If you do a google search on here, a few months back I asked some similar questions.  Another member provided a link that spelled this all out.  I'll see if I can find it but you should look to. 

Thanks that was very informative. My main reason for spending the money for the ma is so that i can get that experience. I don't live in an area where publishing is big so i haven't been able to get that experience. I'm used to the budget cuts creating difficulties, CA schools are crap right now and I am so glad i graduated before the worst of it.     I am also going to be on the book pathway btw. Are you staying in london to work or are you coming back to the US once you finish your dissertation?

I am bummed that publishing isn't offered at some of the nicer universities. My bf got into Kings and his school looks 10x  better than LCC lol. But he is going for forensic science ms not an arts degree. I'm looking for a school that is going to get me prepared for working in publishing and help me get into the industry and i think LCC is one of the better ones to do that. Even if it isn't as attractive as kings.     

Thanks again!

There are loads of Masters in Publishing available in London you could also consider / compare with that programme:   

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage/Home_page/Find_courses_and_research_gs/p!eefXfmd?keyword=publishing&filter=location%2F50%2F51%2F52%2F53&filter=subject%2F2031&selfilter=m%2FFT&action=addfilter&offset=0&2waynocompress=1

Are you staying in london to work or are you coming back to the US once you finish your dissertation?

I intend to stay in London after my dissertation. Actually, I wasn't going to do an MA in Publishing since I already had a good bit of experience, but I was trying to move to London and decided that being a student was the best way to go. But the course has helped me get more experience than I would have if I had come over on my own. Also, I have a boyfriend here, and after doing the long distance thing for a year and a half, I'm not too keen on going back to that.

I am bummed that publishing isn't offered at some of the nicer universities. My bf got into Kings and his school looks 10x  better than LCC lol. But he is going for forensic science ms not an arts degree. I'm looking for a school that is going to get me prepared for working in publishing and help me get into the industry and i think LCC is one of the better ones to do that. Even if it isn't as attractive as kings.     

There are a lot of publishing courses around. However, I wouldn't recommend any of them outside of Oxford or London merely because you won't be able to get as much work experience. In London, UCL has one of the top publishing courses, but it's a little more expensive than LCC. I've no idea if it's considered to be better than LCC, although it does guarantee a work placement whereas LCC does not (I'd say 90% of people on the course have managed to get one, though). Another place is Oxford Brookes University, which is where the Publishing MA was born. I almost went there, but ultimately decided I would rather be in London. Even though LCC isn't pretty, I think you'll still have a good time on the course there.

You can always look at a comparison of universities here:
http://www.train4publishing.co.uk/careers
The current guide is from 2006 and some of the programmes no longer exist, but they should be uploading an updated version soon. (I did a bit of work for the PTC, including re-writing that guide, so I hope my work was not in vain! lol)

You CAN NOT work 40 hours while writing your dissertation.  You CAN NOT work 20 hours and volunteer 20 hours while writing your dissertation.  Whether it is paid or unpaid, it still counts as work.

You can finish you dissertation before you start working and then work 40 hours

You can also ask for holiday which allows you to work.  I am not exactly sure how this works but I remember reading about it.  If you do a google search on here, a few months back I asked some similar questions.  Another member provided a link that spelled this all out.  I'll see if I can find it but you should look to. 

I think I found the post you're talking about. From what I can tell, it looks like I'll have to get that dissertation done a bit early, as in two months early, if I don't want to have any issues. I've told the company I would be able to do the job, but now I'm freaking out a bit and worried I might have to tell them otherwise. They're only going to pay me for 20 hours of work, but at a 40-hour per week salary. So it might look a bit odd for someone to be paid £17 an hour for 20 hours of administrative work...

I've also seen the asking for a holiday thing. On UKCISA, it claims that your tutor can agree to allow a period of time to be a holiday and must confirm this in writing. However, I don't know where a letter a tutor writes would be sent to allow me to work 40 hours a week, nor have I found anywhere that spells out this process. I tried talking to my course director at one point, but he lives in his own world and didn't quite understand the situation. I'm planning to meet with another tutor next week who hopefully has his head screwed on a bit better and will be willing to write a letter. I should have most of the dissertation done by when the job starts, but it might not be fully complete.