Stigma against people who rent?

Yeah, at 37, all of my same-ish age friends own -- both in Boston and Providence.  Same for DC where I lived for 10 years.  I think I am the lone renter and have been for quite a while.  But I don't feel stigmatized at all.  I hate renting and paying someone else's mortgage and very much want to buy when we return to the US, but for now, renting is absolutely the best deal for us and that's all that matters. 

Yup. I've owned and rented and see advantages and disadvantages to both. It all depends on your circumstances, where you live, etc.

But nobody should be made to feel bad for their choice!

To me, it seems like the process of buying a house sucks.  I only want to do it once, maybe twice if I can help it.  I know you can't plan everything, but this is why I don't mind renting until I get to the point where I've found a great house in the place I finally decide to settle in.  Although, I really do hate renting when there is a crappy landlord involved.

Three years ago, I had a five-year plan to save up and buy a house.  Then the entire world went pear-shaped.  As it was, the only thing that saved me from serious financial problems was that I was renting, and so had the flexibility to move to a cheaper apartment, find a roommate, etc., and so reduce my housing costs to 1/3 of what I'd been paying.  If I had owned a house, I'd almost certainly have lost it, or at the very least had to spend all my savings, including retirement money, to hold onto it.

To be honest, after that experience, I have very little interest in ever owning property.  I just can't see myself ever feeling secure enough to take on that sort of long-term financial commitment.  The world uncertain is, and all that.

I don't understand why it's considered a good thing to buy a house as an investment.  Shouldn't it just be a place to live?  Maybe we need to completely rethink our attitude to home owership.  Shelter is a basic human need, there's really no excuse for a developed country that prices basic needs out of the average person's budget.

Personally this is also my opinion......

But I think it is an important point that today's housing situation is not only morally questionable (just an opinion/belief) but pragmatically unsound. We have come to expect housing values to rise because basically they have for 40 years. Governments have written blank checks to the industry in terms of tax breaks, lax financial over-sight and the artificial constraint of interest rates to keep the wheels greased. It has been a tremendous run for a great many people. And one could make a good point that perhaps it could have continued indefinitely had financial institutions not gone crazy with risk, and governments not failed to use the brakes. The US Fed could have bumped up rates ten years ago and slowed it all down, but that is a very tough call - given a democratic system it is almost impossible to be the guy who says, "Oh growth needs to be curbed". You would not be reelected.

In the free market, housing is a commodity like any other, like oil or tin or wheat; the laws of supply and demand in most times will set the value - and the system works fine. But as we have seen time and again, in reality we are not always rational. In reality value is set by perception. If we think demand will rise we invest. If we fear danger ahead we hoard.

Perhaps though - and this veers off into total opinion - the most important driving condition today is that everyone knows things have turned sour. We all know it. We are in a protracted slump at best.

I will agree totally with Denis in that what we are really seeing is a reshuffling of where the West stands in today's world economy. Britain has been dealing with this since WWII, the US faces it now. We talk all the time about China's rise but we do it in a way that makes it seem as if it won't affect us. The oil situation has caused a tremendous outflow of money to the Mideast.

I personally think that this will cause great stresses on our way of life because just as with house hold budgets, stepping down the ladder can be excruciating. Making do, austerity, these things are fine in speeches, they speak to our ingrained ideals of hard work and perseverance - Pa Engels and wartime London; but on the ground it is ugly and mean.

But it doesn't have to be all despair. It is an opportunity really to redefine what matters. Quality health care is important. Shelter is a requirement. We must eat safe nutritious foods and drink clean water. Everyone must. We have to feel safe. Humans function better if we are rested and allowed the opportunity to express ourselves and to cultivate our talents. Under those conditions we see success.

I don't understand why it's considered a good thing to buy a house as an investment.  Shouldn't it just be a place to live?  Maybe we need to completely rethink our attitude to home owership.  Shelter is a basic human need, there's really no excuse for a developed country that prices basic needs out of the average person's budget.

I agree. I do own property, which I'm currently renting out (since the market sucks). I'm debating when/whether to sell, given that I don't foresee living in that area again. On the one hand, the prospect of "passive income" once the mortgage is paid off is pretty attractive. On the other hand, most people who own rental companies say they're lucky to break even thanks to repairs, taxes, bad tenants, etc, so the thought of just selling (in a year or two) and being done is also nice.

In the meantime, I'm really liking the flexibility of renting. I enjoy where I live now, but if I decide I want to try another part of London, or another part of England, I can. Yes, I'm paying someone else's mortgage, but I'm getting a roof over my head in exchange, so who cares?

I think it also depends on age. Nearly all my friends in Providence owned.

D'oh!  I meant to add age too.   

When I lived in Western PA I could have bought that two bedroom house for less than a studio apartment would have cost.

I was so glad to find some roommates.

For some moving to a new country, they may not be able to obtain a mortgage right away, and have no other choice but to rent.

For some moving to a new country, they may not be able to obtain a mortgage right away, and have no other choice but to rent.

I know 

I know this topic has been dead a few weeks, but BBC Magazine just had an article closely related that might be of interest:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11002344

I know this topic has been dead a few weeks, but BBC Magazine just had an article closely related that might be of interest:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11002344

What a great article.

I hate renting. Hate it, hate it, hate it.  Its caused me nothing but grief.  *In a good place at the moment though, fingers crossed it all works out OK.*

Its pretty impossible for me to save a deposit whilst paying rent and (other debt like school loans, unfortunately) - especially the kind of deposit I need for an expat mortgage since I don't have ILR,  because I end up most months hitting the end and being happy its pay day.  Really- I just want to be able to have some pets, paint the walls, hang pictures up wherever I want, dig veggie gardens, etc.  Realise home ownership has plenty of pitfalls, but I'm ready for it.

Unfortunately, it looks like I'm not getting on the housing ladder anytime soon at all... 

Unfortunately, it looks like I'm not getting on the housing ladder anytime soon at all... 

I've just been listening to them talk about this on Radio 4. Apparently the average age for first-time homeowners (without help from parents) is now 37.

I've just been listening to them talk about this on Radio 4. Apparently the average age for first-time homeowners (without help from parents) is now 37.

Oh wow- that's pretty insane if you ask me!  I guess that's when people are finally hitting salaries when they can afford it and have been able to save for years and years... 

I've just been listening to them talk about this on Radio 4. Apparently the average age for first-time homeowners (without help from parents) is now 37.

Hah.  My husband just turned 37, and no chance of us buying anytime soon.  We could afford the mortgage repayments, but it would take us 20 years to save the deposit.  I think that housing prices are just out of control and something needs to be done to bring them down to reasonable levels, more in line with people's actual incomes.  If you choose to rent, that's fine, but you should never see a situation where both adults in a family work and are still not able to buy if they want to.  Fortunately, we have managed to find quite a nice flat with a good landlord, but I think we would both prefer to have something that is our own.  

Oh wow- that's pretty insane if you ask me!  I guess that's when people are finally hitting salaries when they can afford it and have been able to save for years and years... 

It was pretty interesting. If you want to listen again it's here: Alvin Hall's Generations of Money.

It's estimated that over half of the UK's housing wealth is owned by the post-war generation of people born in the twenty years after the end of the Second World War. Only around ten per cent of it is owned by people under the age of 40. High house prices have meant families are having to wait until much later in life to get a foot on the property ladder

It's apparently quite normal in France for first-time buyers to be in their 40s. But as the article said, renting is much more favourable over there too. I'm quite happy to rent, especially since we've been really lucky with our landlords once we moved out of a student town, and our current one has let us paint, have pets if we want and is very good about responding quickly to anything that needs done. We'll be staying here a while!