A highly subjective poll about standard of living

phatbeetle, I think it's actually 20 days + 8 bank holidays, so the total minimum is 28 days. Employers can choose whether to include bank holidays in the 28 or whether to give 28 + 8. See the direct.gov link I posted above.

Yes, you're right- sorry, I was thinking of my friends who are shift workers, so they actually get less days- as they don't get the bank holidays, just total time off and because its shift work, its far less days.   

My husband works for the NHS, and he has to take all his leave, they're quite insistent about it, to the point where if he has any leave left by February (the new "leave year" starts in April) then his boss starts to nag him to take some time off! 

My company is the same way, they want you to take all your leave and are pretty upset at you when you don't take it. 

Yes Historyenne, that is part of the law as well. Untaken leave days can be given as salary instead.

I think the vacation policies in the US, or lack of them, are probably due to them still adjusting to the end of slavery. (Ouch)

A comment was made on here about service industries in the US that are not paying their employees for vacations, period. That is one thing I really appreciate about the UK, they treat service industry workers like they are human beings.

Yeah, it's all part of that 'radical socialist thinking'.

"Still adjusting to the end of slavery"?  Are you being serious?  The Civil War was 150 years ago, I think we've all adjusted, and so have our great-grandparents.  Working conditions in the US, in the service or any other industry, are far more likely to be influenced by the "work ethic," the focus on profit as an end in itself, and the popular idea that relaxation is just laziness by another name. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38935053/ns/business-us_business/

This about the millions that CEO rake in at the same time as they lay off masses of workers.

"Still adjusting to the end of slavery"?  Are you being serious?  The Civil War was 150 years ago, I think we've all adjusted, and so have our great-grandparents.  Working conditions in the US, in the service or any other industry, are far more likely to be influenced by the "work ethic," the focus on profit as an end in itself, and the popular idea that relaxation is just laziness by another name. 

Yes. The other side of this is that customer service standards are better in the US than in the UK.  You can't focus equally  on the comfort of your workers and pleasing your customers as much as possible at the same time.  One of them has got to give.

The US is more profit-motivated so it puts customer service first.

There was a thread on UKY in which people complained about how it takes a long time to get things done in the UK. I think the fact that every worker gets at least 20 days holiday probably has something to do with that. If people aren't there, work can't get done.

Yes. The other side of this is that customer service standards are better in the US than in the UK.  You can't focus equally  on the comfort of your workers and pleasing your customers as much as possible at the same time.  One of them has got to give.

The US is more profit-motivated so it puts customer service first.

There was a thread on UKY in which people complained about how it takes a long time to get things done in the UK. I think the fact that every worker gets at least 20 days holiday probably has something to do with that. If people aren't there, work can't get done.

I don't know if its necessarily and either / or thing.  My background is retail and just because I now get all those holiday days (thank god!) doesn't mean my US-trained customer service skills are going to pot.  It really doesn't take all that much to be quick, efficient, attentive, etc.  I notice the lack of this in UK supermarkets most of all and I don't think it would take all that much to bring it closer to the standard I was trained with....

I don't know if its necessarily and either / or thing.  My background is retail and just because I now get all those holiday days (thank god!) doesn't mean my US-trained customer service skills are going to pot.  It really doesn't take all that much to be quick, efficient, attentive, etc.  I notice the lack of this in UK supermarkets most of all and I don't think it would take all that much to bring it closer to the standard I was trained with....

I totally agree.  Assuming that the standard of customer service in the UK really is lower (and I qualify this simply because we've all seen outstandingly good and bad service in both countries, if we're honest about it), I don't think it has anything to do with how many vacation days people get.

If service is poor, it's because it's allowed to be.  Managers don't expect more and consumers don't demand more.  If either of those variables changed, then the service level would change regardless of what sorts of perks the workers got.

Likewise, if American service industry employees started getting paid time off (hell, even paid sick/emergency days would be nice!), it would not alter the quality of customer service given. 

The bottom line, in any country, is that a business is either well-run, with well-trained employees, or it isn't.

I've not had any problems with customer service in the UK (well, no more than I had in the US), but if you really feel strongly about it, have a look at this! 

I've not had any problems with customer service in the UK (well, no more than I had in the US), but if you really feel strongly about it, have a look at this! 

Hehehe that's great.

Can I nominate my past letting agent as having the worst customer service ever? 

I totally agree.  Assuming that the standard of customer service in the UK really is lower (and I qualify this simply because we've all seen outstandingly good and bad service in both countries, if we're honest about it), I don't think it has anything to do with how many vacation days people get.

If service is poor, it's because it's allowed to be.  Managers don't expect more and consumers don't demand more.  If either of those variables changed, then the service level would change regardless of what sorts of perks the workers got.

Likewise, if American service industry employees started getting paid time off (hell, even paid sick/emergency days would be nice!), it would not alter the quality of customer service given. 

The bottom line, in any country, is that a business is either well-run, with well-trained employees, or it isn't.

I agree with you totally.  I think *maybe* it's just my neighborhood Morrisons that is a bit lacking customer service-wise.  Not fair of me to use that as an example of all retail businesses.  Although I also notice it at  bit at my own shop and the shop I worked at before that.

Hi all

Interesting points....

There is a 'general' agreement that it's much more 'likely' that you'd experience much better customer service in the US than you would here in the UK. As mentioned, the US places more emphasis on the customer than is generally done here. Of course, there will be plenty of instances where the reverse is true and I think most of us have indeed experienced customer service here inthe UK which is or is consistently better than that experienced US side. However, as I say, the general way is that the US is better.

I agree, a well run and customer focussed department run by a competent and aware manager will instill a level of pride and service in employees to deliver good customer service regardless of amounts of holiday on offer and being taken by colleagues. In practical terms, when a colleague does leave on holiday and the rest pull together, then there is a 'risk' that the standards may slip, if the rest of the department is well run, this change should have minimal impact on the customer - they'd never know for instance. However, more often than not, it's to an extent which is visible.

I cite 2 examples -

I've only ever worked at 3 software houses in my IT career, just happened to be American. my 2nd one, involved lots of phone calls for support and development from end users - I was the only one of the team capable of doing this. We'd have a set target each day for the amount of calls resolved (when I was on resolutions!) and a mximum amount of time to be allowed per call to ensure good overall customer service levels. I often would go over my allocated time slot per call, and also regulary be a little off my target of resolutions per day. My managers of course knew. The reason, well thats simple, I gave the very best in customer support, that often involved people, much inthe same position as UKY members coming to the UK and I'd help them with their finances and tracking using Quicken. I'd have some very nervous sounding people on the line, almost frightened of being here, in all my time I had about 4 (all women!) actually crying on the phone as they just couldnt do certain things. I'd go out of my way to help them. Managers were onto that as well. When they did pull me up, I simply said, well look at the ones I have spent over time on, they were cases where I thought it better to resolve them in one go at 45 mins or 90 mins rather than have them stressing, they might even tell their freinds - managers were happy with that, but of course said we still want you to hit targets! What I did was to ask them to train up 2 other people, that I'd train them and when a difficult case came in, for me to take over and for them to carry on with other less intense calls to keep our team resolution rate high. It worked. I'd get letters of thanks, gifts and calls into my bosses for thanks and praise - felt good too!

I've been in other jobs where I couldn't wait for 530, and dreaded coming in at 9am. My customer service level was hard to try and keep up with the issue that caused that feeling, although I tried my very best. When a staff member went off on holiday or was sick, getting the extra workload meant a very noticeable decrease in customer service.

One word I have heard from a number of people within the area of international living, usually those previously based in the UK or British and now living abroad, is slightly risque but I happen to agree.

The level of 'Pride' in the UK isn't as high as other countries. Mainly discernable with the USA and a natural choice to compare seeing as we have very similar countries, but also noticed in other Euro and Asian countries as well. When it comes to 'work' due to various elements, pride is lacking which shows up as badly run or underperforming organisations. There's many a worker that's clockwatching and in many customer facing type jobs - restaurants, banks, supermarkets, retail, to me its mind boggling the amount of sullen faces, lack of apparent awareness of staff - not saying it's all, but a very noticeable amount.

The 'Pride' thing has many facets, including, more riskily, the political level..  but we'll leave that shall we!


As this thread has the potential to meander all over the show as per original posters very open ended question, it still gets summed up as per the creditable and reputable indexes which consistently place the UK quite far behind the USA in all of them. I like that Canada has higher rankings overall and in many respects knocks spots off the UK and USA.

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

For much of our first year of living in the UK, my wife and both felt that the standard of living was unquestionably higher in the US. (Although a general country-to-country comparison is unfair, as it depends on lots of other factors, but I'm going for the 'subjective' thing here -- this is how it felt for us.)

Now we are both employed and are having less of the money worries that plagued us for the past year. We're not rolling in it or anything, but we're able to go out and make small-to-medium-sized purchases without having to stress about feeling pinched at the end of the month. We're certainly not socking away cash the way we might be if we were both working comparable jobs in the States (this is the main point here, I think).

The main other quality of life factor for us would be the far more pervasive sense (in the UK) of low-level stuff like litter, smoking, broken bottles in parks, vandalism, people swigging lager in public, etc. Nothing too severe, but it all adds up to create a general feeling of shabbiness. Also we have found that while people are not unfriendly -- and many are actively friendly -- there remains a sort of distance across which it is very hard to cross.

Now there are plenty of corresponding benefits as well -- the scenery where we live (Sussex) is gorgeous, and we love being by the sea. There is a lot for the kids to do (although much of it feels very expensive) and we love spending time in places like Brighton and London. Free healthcare is another big plus, as is proximity to mainland Europe for general horizons-broadening activity (say what you like about the US Midwest, it's not exactly thrilling to the parts of the soul and spirit that crave beauty and travel and exotic new places...)

So, yeah, if asked to choose one place I would probably say that the part of the US we were in had a higher quality of life than the part of the UK we are now in, but the reality is far more complicated and there are pluses and minuses to both.

I don't know if its necessarily and either / or thing.  My background is retail and just because I now get all those holiday days (thank god!) doesn't mean my US-trained customer service skills are going to pot.  It really doesn't take all that much to be quick, efficient, attentive, etc.  I notice the lack of this in UK supermarkets most of all and I don't think it would take all that much to bring it closer to the standard I was trained with....

I agree. I've worked retail in both countries -- book shops -- and I think the staff in the UK one were much more "professional" and they were encouraged to do further training. The one in the US was mostly staffed by high school kids and older women wanting to get out of the house, who were all pretty slack in spite of the overbearing management. We were not allowed to sit down -- ever. One woman had surgery on her knee and was back within two days (no sick leave) and they wouldn't even let her sit on a stool when ringing. When business was slow we still had to walk around the store and "greet" each customer who did come in and shove flyers and coupons in their hands. The shop in the UK was a small independent one and, while we were friendly to customers, we didn't have to be in their faces. Nothing book shop patrons hate more than overzealous assistants. "Are you being served?"