Your take on courtesy-

Let me prefess this by saying I haven't had breakfast yet so I may not be my best self

I was just watching my favorite live webcam. It is for the 'Abbey Road Crossing' made famous by the Beetles. This is a heavy tourist spot. OK so I've just been watching it for a few minutes and it makes me livid when some of the public jump off the curb on the crossing without consideration to the traffic. One person stepped in front of a heavy bus and the driver had to stop abruptly. How ignorant of this pedestrian! Some people just hang out on the crossing and hold up the traffic.

When I want to cross at a crosswalk will stand back until I see a break in traffic then I will proceed to cross. Courtesy!

Some people don't consider other people in anything they do.

We have forumed before on 'zebra crossings' and some have said they have almost been run down on the crossings. These drivers who do that are maybe the same pedestrians who step off the curb without looking and in front of vehicles.

Anyway!

Drivers are meant to have their vehicles under control at all times, regardless of the jurisdiction or rules.  While cars cannot stop on a dime, I think the UK is a very pedestrian unfriendly country when it comes to crossings.  

If I am crossing a side street, I should not have to yield the right of way to turning traffic (or traffic entering from that side street or driveway for that matter) if I am crossing with a light.  I would not have to do so as a car in a lane that turning car would have to cross to complete the turn, so why should I as a pedestrian?  Why should I have to yield the right of way to vehicles pulling out from driveways?  I don't know if it's the law, but I know it's expected of me.  So much so that one time I was walking down the pavement in front of the Streatham bus depot, and the driver of a bus (who didn't stop at the line before the pavement) had the cheek to honk his horn at me as I crossed the access road.  Again, if I were a vehicle travelling legally in my lane of traffic, he would, as a vehicle entering traffic, would have to yield and wait for me.  

Pavements should be a place where pedestrians always have the right of way without question.  IMO, so should crossings where pedestrians are using them legally.  In the case of zebra crossings that means anyone who has their foot in the crossing.  It's a driver's responsibility to be alert, and if he or she is missing something like people entering a zebra crossing, how is he or she meant to see defensive driving situations where someone might be in the wrong and step out in front of a car (or turn into a driver's lane) but an accident can be avoided by quick thinking?

As for me, I practice defensive walking.  I wait at zebra crossings because I've seen idiots breeze through them like they aren't even there.  If someone decides to ignore one either consciously or out of ineptitude, it doesn't really matter if I am in the right or not.  I could be injured seriously or perhaps killed.

Road courtesy really has to include the realisation that pedestrians do not have anything protecting them from massive metal boxes driven by people who can sometimes be in too much of a hurry to get to where ever they're going.  IMO, all jurisdictions should have laws that protect pedestrians, encourage foot traffic, and encourage driver mindfulness. Really, you're going to get there before me in your car, kindly don't kill me in the process.

I agree with everything Legs Akimbo said.

In addition, I can't stand the way UK drivers turn corners without slowing down in case there might actually be a pedestrian trying to cross the street. So I have to constantly be looking in not two, but three directions to avoid getting killed.

I also agree that it is terrible that drivers come out of side streets without checking for pedestrians.  I've seen drivers back out of driveways without even checking to see if there is anyone walking behind them on the pavement.


In addition, in at least some parts of America, notably New York, and Boston pedestrians seemed to be the same when I visited there once, it is the norm for pedestrians to start inching their way into the road and stand at the edge before the traffic light has changed to "walk",  so they can walk across the road as soon as there is a break in traffic.

And if the light changes to green when there are pedestrians walking across the road, the cars stay motionless until the pedestrians have crossed the street. Here as soon as the light turns green, drivers start to move forward at full speed, regardless of who is trying to cross the street. Sometimes they don't even bother to wait till it's green and go when the light is yellow.

Since many of the people at the Abbey Road crossing are tourists, and probably many are American, they may just assume that the drivers behave the same here as they do in the US, or whatever country they're from.

ETA: Speaking as someone who lives in a major tourist area and has tourists passing by her house almost every day, people should realize that tourists tend to be overwhelmed and don't always pay attention to everything in their surroundings or to move as quickly as they would if they were walking around their hometowns.  I get annoyed when tourists stand around in the middle of the pavement looking around at buildings and blocking my way, but if I accidently bump into one of them I'm not going to kill them.  People driving through an area full of tourists should have enough sense to slow down and be more careful.

"Putting others first" is a nice idea, but by itself it doesn't solve matters when you have people with conflicting needs.

Priority has to go to those who are more vulnerable.

A pedestrian is more vulnerable than a cyclist or a car driver.

A cyclist is more vulnerable than a car driver.

Therefore the order of priority should be:

1 pedestrian
2 cyclist
3 driver

If a feeble old man with a cane gets behind me in a queue at the shop, I ask him to go ahead of me. If I get behind him, I don't expect him to ask me to get in front of him.

"Putting others first" is a nice idea, but by itself it doesn't solve matters when you have people with conflicting needs.

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I rethought that and I decided it sounded too gushy so I removed the post. I will not however jump off the curb at a zebra crossing until the cars have passed if it is practical.

Hmm. On the thread about crossing the street, someone said that the cars at a zebra crossing don't have to stop unless you step into the street. So if you stand on the curb and don't step off it, the cars will never stop.

If you are standing at a traffic signal but still have to wait for a break in traffic to cross the street, then there is no point in having a traffic signal.

And in some cases, for example, if you are in a city during rush hour, there is never a break in traffic.

I work near a zebra crossing and it is a pain to cross.  If I don't put my foot in the crossing, the cars won't stop. (It is a main road with heavy rush hour traffic.) So I have to stick my foot into the crossing so that cars will stop, but I can't commit my whole body in case a car is coming at full speed and can't stop in time, so I need to be able to pull my foot back out in a second.  It's like a ridiculous game of chicken.

Ha! I watch that webcam every day. And everyday, I wish the webcam had two-way communication (it has sound so you, the viewer, can hear what's happening there, for those who aren't familiar with it). I find myself yelling at the computer all.the.time! SO many inconsiderate tourists! I mean, like really, it's rush hour and you all just stopped in the middle of the crosswalk for 30 seconds while your friend stands in the middle of traffic at a 3 way intersection to take a photo?! REALLY?!

Of course, if I lived in that area, I'd find a new way to get where I was going. I think the drivers can be very bad, too- cars, buses, all of 'em. Often they will come around the corner when regular folks are crossing and don't even slow down even though there are people in the road (not standing there, but crossing normally/lawfully.) Even the bus has narrowly missed people sometimes! It's crazy! I'm actually really excited to go back to Abbey Road when I visit London in November, so I can say all the things I'm always screaming at the computer. (Not really....well, maybe....)

Oh, and I watch that webcam so much that I've actually recognized people I've seen on there other days! LOL I turn it on to go to sleep at night. It's like white noise and having London outside the window... *sigh* I really miss London, I guess!

Ha! I watch that webcam every day. It's like white noise and having London outside the window... *sigh* I really miss London, I guess!

That's so cool!  Are there other webcams like that for other cities?  How about Dublin?

That's so cool!  Are there other webcams like that for other cities?  How about Dublin?

There are webcams in Dublin, just google it and you'll come up with some. I know there used to be one on top of the Spire on O'Connell Street, but I'm not sure if it's still there.

There are webcams in Dublin, just google it and you'll come up with some. I know there used to be one on top of the Spire on O'Connell Street, but I'm not sure if it's still there.

Cool!  Lazy me did think of googling it, but didn't bother.  I will now, though. 

I find the UK (even London) far more pedestrian-friendly than Providence was!

Drivers through my village, near the only store, will not stop unless you step out into the street into the crosswalk. 

Since there are no lights, or stop signs, I'd be waiting hours to get across the road.   

They are supposed to be driving faster than 30 anyway.

One thing that surprised me upon moving to the UK was how fast people drive in residential areas. I can understand if you are driving on a motorway from one city to another, but if you are driving down a street with shops, pubs, schools and houses on either side, you have to expect that at some point people are going to want to cross the street.

I find the UK (even London) far more pedestrian-friendly than Providence was!

Oh, I am sure there are places in the US that are very pedestrian unfriendly if not in their laws in their design or in driver's attitudes.  In fact, I know it.  I have no clue what the laws are in RI, but there are states where the laws and their enforcement require a different attitude towards pedestrians though.  I guess I was spoilt growing up and then learning to drive in a state where pedestrians making legal crossings always have the right of way.  I also have come to realise what an excellent Driver's Ed teacher I had.  It makes me feel a bit wary about driving and walking when I know most people don't seem to have had the same defensive driving background.

I definitely wasn't trying to make this an "America, ---- yeah!" topic.

I definitely wasn't trying to make this an "America, ---- yeah!" topic.

Oh, I knew that! 

We live in a very quiet village and it's pretty customary for cars to stop for pedestrians. But I think we have far more pedestrians than we do cars!

Even in cities, though, I've found drivers to be very respectful. Maybe I've just been lucky?