Getting the boys to stay in bed!!

My boys are now almost 3 and almost 5. In terms of development, though, they are much closer. So for arguments' sake, they are both like 4 year olds. They do everything together. Including keeping each other up at night.

We are in the process of spiralling downwards to a point where they are both awake until almost 11pm and we're struggling to get them up in the morning.

The boys share a room. There is really no option for separating them and trying to get the younger one to sleep first is not something we want to try until we've exhausted all other options (he naps during the day so he is getting more sleep for his age).

We have a bed time routine that involves getting into jammies, brushing teeth, reading a book or more, singing a song, etc. Bath times are never part of the going to bed routine as they have always been splashing free-for-alls for them. Baths happen before or after dinner.

I have tried:

putting them to bed later
letting them play for a bit with dim lights on
not letting them play at all
removing all toys
removing all but one chosen toy
soft guitar music
whale music
sitting in their room and putting them back in bed every time they get up (they tag team - as soon as I get one down, the other pops up for hours...)
yelling
not reacting at all - silence

I do know they probably aren't getting quite enogh exercise. But my hands are really tied with that. I'm working almost full time and my mother, who does most of the child care, can't manage them well outside the house. The older one is at school but gets limited PE and recess is clearly not cutting it. The younger one also gets some exercise at preschool.

That said, last night they both jumped on their beds for ages and they STILL didn't tire out. This was after full, busy days!!

The thing is, I have half a mind to just let them play until they drop. While it's hard to get them up in the mornings, it's not impossible and the dark, gloomy mornings havent' helped.

HOWEVER, the issue is that I may have to remove all the furniture from their rooms! It's now to the point where they are taking all the clothes out of the chest of drawers and also taking some of the drawers out. They could hurt themselves on those!

AND they have started messing with the heater. The only heat source in our bedrooms are portable electric heaters. In their room, the plug goes into the wall and is covered with a child-proof cover. That, apparently, the younger one can now remove. 

I'm at my wit's end.

Does anyone have any other thoughts for what I might try?

HELP!!

Hi balmerhon, I can remember those days when my son and daughter shared a room and the late nights too. It got to the point they were simply keeping each other up at all times and I ended up separating them by putting one in our bedroom until they both went to sleep and then putting the other back in their bed before I went to bed. I also had to stay upstairs until they both went to sleep usually one of us on the pc to make sure no playing or running about was done as they were sneaky.   This worked for us but other than this I have no other ideas. Good luck as I know it can be hard.

 I started a reward system for my little guy, every time I put him down for bed and he stayed there he would get a sticker on his reward chart. If he had a night where he kept getting up I took one away. At the end of the chart he got a play day or special time with me or his grandma.  It worked pretty well.

  My friend used to give her 3 young boys a supplement her doctor recommended called Melatonin, I've read up on it and the views are split. Some doctors think it's fine if only used once in a while, others think it shouldn't be given to kids unless they have an extreme medical condition.  My friend only gave her kids half the dose the doctor recommended and she said within 10 minutes all 3 very rambunctious kids were fast asleep.

 I hope you find something that works for you. Good Luck

straps! lol!

Duct tape - it's good for everything, isn't it? 

A few things that worked for us: 

Talking about what is expected at bedtime:  talking about it from suppertime on.  talking about it until I was blue in the face.  having him talk about it back to me.  a lot.  every night. 

I set up basic rules about bedtime - focus on what they CAN do as opposed to what they can't do.  then ask, do we take all the clothes out of the dresser?  NO! Do we jump on the beds?  NO!  Bedtime is quiet time...  reinforce, reinforce, reinforce. 

Include them in the rule making - they might just take it seriously if they are a part of it.  Then, write it out and post it on the door.  Use it as a check list so if they break the rules, then you can hold them to it. 

Find their jugular.  One of my parenting philosophies is always have something to barter with (or in other words blackmail or extorsion!) and it has to be something they really really really love that they would be devastated if it were taken away. 

Also, can you take them for a walk after dinner?  Even if it's around the block, it would get them moving.  Or if the weather's crap, how about running up and down the stairs - race if they like to.  But be sure they know that the bedtime rules are to be envoked after the exercise. 

One thing that worked for us, is to tell them that something good will happen AFTER they do what they are supposed to - think up some reward that they will get only AFTER they have behaved themselves.  Include them on choosing the reward. 

Eventually, they do get it! 

Thanks, everyone. Mrs R, I've considered duct tape!!

MrsP, unfortunately reward charts don't yet work with my older son. He's got some speech and language delays and he doesn't yet 'get' the concept of rewards that are not immediate. Neither of them read yet but I could try some picture reinforcement. As for bribery, they are moving targets. One day it's all about the dinosaurs, the next it's the fire trucks. I've yet to find the jugular with the exception of the 'lovies' they both have (blankets) which I think would be wrong to take at this stage in their lives.

We do talk about what they can and can't do, but it just isn't sticking. Consistency is an issue as sometimes they are at their Dad's and some nights I'm home later.

Honestly, it's all a bit of a mess now.

Smashley, we've thought about melatonin. My uncle has had success with that with his step-graddaughter. I'm considering it and have spoken to a doctor about it already.

Thanks everyone!

C, our pediatrician put DS on melatonin shortly before Christmas.  If you have any questions, PM me!

C, our pediatrician put DS on melatonin shortly before Christmas.  If you have any questions, PM me!

Will do!

I don't have children and don't pretend to know the first thing about how to discipline them.

But, for what it's worth, just yesterday a friend on LiveJournal posted something very interesting. It was about 'Gentle Discipline' and the concept of natural and/or logical consequences. Basically, the punishment should be tied to the action.

The example she used was that if your child throws food, for instance, sending him to his room as punishment is in no way connected to the action, so there's no logical to the child. But if you punish him by making him clean it up and not offering an alternative meal, that makes more sense.

So taking away your boys' favourite toys as punishment is really nothing to do with their sleep times. It's not a logical consequence.

It just all sounded very practical and sensible to me. So there you go. But, as I said, I don't have children.

I had the same problem with my 3 year old so I cut out his daytime nap.  Now, we go upstairs at 7:45, read a short book, then I put on his bedtime music.  Within 2 minutes he's snoring. 

I have had similar problems with my 3 year old son in the past. Luckily, his dresser broke in the shipment container on the way overseas, so he has no furniture other than toy storage and his bed in his room.

I tried the SuperNanny strategy (repeatedly putting him back in his room) for a while but the chasing bit became a game for him after awhile.

I got a doorknob cover, so while he's not technically "locked" in his room, the door cannot be opened from the inside. So when his door is shut he knows it's bedtime. He doesn't always go to sleep right away, and that's fine with me. He plays/reads until he gets groggy and manages to put himself back into bed. But he now knows what when he's in his room, he stays there until it's time to get up. (I do leave the door ajar once we go to bed in case he gets up and needs us in the night)

MrsP, unfortunately reward charts don't yet work with my older son. He's got some speech and language delays and he doesn't yet 'get' the concept of rewards that are not immediate. Neither of them read yet but I could try some picture reinforcement. As for bribery, they are moving targets. One day it's all about the dinosaurs, the next it's the fire trucks. I've yet to find the jugular with the exception of the 'lovies' they both have (blankets) which I think would be wrong to take at this stage in their lives.

The chart is not for rewards, it's all about setting the boundaries.  If the rules are set in stone, then they know exactly what is expected of them.  Even with speech and language delays, you could communicate the rules effectively and he should be able to grasp simple consequences (i.e. if you do "this"... then "this" will happen). 

Explain to them that you are unhappy about bedtime and you want to include them in the solution.  You need to have 'buy-in'.   

Balmerhon...my son turned 5 in January, he also has some speech problems, and we tried reward charts time and time again, but I tried one again about a month ago with dressing himself and brushing his own teeth, and they clicked, they have really made a huge difference! He really wanted what I had on reward (a colour change hotwheels car) and now he dresses himself and brushes his own teeth everyday!

I say try it again and again...it might click one day!

I tried the SuperNanny strategy (repeatedly putting him back in his room) for a while but the chasing bit became a game for him after awhile.

I can't give any good advice yet but I was going to recommend the supernanny approach. It looks like it'd take a lot of effort and be damned annoying those first few times but she always seems to have results. It's a shame it didn't work for you.