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Topic: Filling out FBAR  (Read 9071 times)

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Filling out FBAR
« on: February 18, 2011, 03:47:00 PM »
Thank goodness for this site - i have just been browsing through and realised that my husband needs to fill out an FBAR for 2010!!

I think he has alread done his tax return but im not sure if he ticked the box relating to a foreign bank account - is this a problem?

I have printed out the TD F 90-22.1 form and i just want to clarify which bits need filling out. He moved over in 2009 and I immediately added him to my bank account. He transferred some mony over at the beginning of 2010 for our wedding and honeymoon putting the account over $10,000 in fact it went over the $10,000 again when we bought a car later in the year but the largest amount would have been in Jan 2010.

So I assume we have to fill out part 1 (filer information) and part 3 (information on finiancial accounts owned jointly) are they the only parts to fill out?

In part 1 the first question is for type of filer and lists individual, partnership,corporation and consolidated. Which is correct here? Is it partnership as the account is joint owned or individual as it is only relevant for him? Also for the address do we put his uk address?

Thanks for your help!




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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2011, 04:52:46 PM »
It sounds like you only need to fill in parts 1 and 3 since you only have one bank account and it's a joint account? If your husband had any bank accounts outside the US in his name alone, you'd need to fill in part 2 as well.

In part 1 you always tick "individual" even if you're reporting joint bank accounts. In this instance, "partnership" means a business partnership.


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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 05:14:40 PM »
I'll have to make some assumptions since your post is unclear on some facts. I'll assume he is a USC and you are a UKC. I'll also assume he filed as ' married filing separately’.

He will file the FBAR as an individual. He should use his UK address, which should be the same address he used on 2010 Form 1040. Yes, fill out Part I. Fill out Part II if he had any foreign accounts in his name only. Check carefully all accounts he could possibly have, in addition to bank accounts. According to some professionals, these could include such things as a pre-paid travel card (it would include a pre-paid credit cards). Read the instructions fully. Yes, he should complete Part III for joint accounts. You are the principal joint owner, (if it’s only the two of you), and he should put ‘spouse’ after your name on line 26. According to the instructions, you are required to co-sign the FBAR. As an amateur, I will not comment. Some NRA spouses refuse to sign a US tax document. Hopefully, the professionals will clarify.

If the aggregate amount of over $10,000 were only in the account for 5 minutes, it would constitute one day, and would require the FBAR.

The ‘ticked box’ is on Schedule B, Part III. It is a problem if Part III is not completed, but it will be viewed more favourably if all account interest was listed and declared in Part I, and he files the FBAR in addition to Schedule B. Again, it’s up to the professionals to advise the filing of 1040X to correct the oversight. I believe it can not be filed until a specified time has elapsed after the initial filing.

The above is my opinion, and others with more knowledge may disagree.



Xpost with politicfool
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 05:21:20 PM by theOAP »


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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 09:12:41 PM »
Thanks both!

The money was only in the account for a short time (less than a day) before it was moved to my solely owned savings account but I had already read that any time means any time so he must file.

Yes, he is USC and I am UKC and I assume he filed as married filing separately.
 
Couple more questions - where can I find the exchange rate? And am I okay to send this off using royal mail air sure or should I fedex it over?




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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2011, 09:52:43 AM »
Thanks both!

The money was only in the account for a short time (less than a day) before it was moved to my solely owned savings account but I had already read that any time means any time so he must file.


You are right. As an example, when I moved into my house I had to pay 6 months rent in advance. The money went from my US account to my UK account and directly to the letting agent's account. I still had to count it as being in my account, because it was there for a very brief time and then I didn't had it any more.

They want to make sure you are not trying to hide money by moving it around.


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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2011, 10:19:41 AM »
I am not paying fed ex for my taxes - sorry charlie that seems like a lot to spend..
Below is where the IRS says to send them and the exchange rate
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=97324,00.html

I am e-filing if I can ;-)


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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2011, 10:41:13 AM »
Couple more questions - where can I find the exchange rate? And am I okay to send this off using royal mail air sure or should I fedex it over?

The exchange rate for 2010 FBAR is 0.6400 (1.5463). The unofficial exchange rate for 2010 Form 1040 has just been released. It is 1.54 (0.647). (Thanks to Sara and DrSuperL99 for the info on which to use where!)

You will be mailing all the details of your account (but not the passwords/pin, the only exceptions). The FBAR will contain your date of birth and a specimen of your signature. Any identity thief would appreciate being able to access it. Mail the FBAR in what you feel would be the most secure way, with that in mind.

IRS Site:
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=206089,00.html
or:
http://london.usembassy.gov/irs/irsxchng.html

Treasury Site (FBAR):
http://fms.treas.gov/intn.html#rates
You must use the December 31, 2010 rate.


Xpost with ChillyWilly
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 01:51:16 PM by theOAP »


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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 07:45:53 PM »
Thanks for the advice!

It turns out that hubby hasn't filed his tax return yet so I have some more questions. From what I have read he would file as married filing separately and where it asks for my social security number he would put NRA? Is this the same for the FBAR? Should we apply for an ITIN or is this more hassle than its worth?

I have just been reading a little about Schedule B, part I regarding declaring interest on the account. I have a savings account in my name only which i assume we don't have to declare? The interest on our joint account amounts to something ridiculous like 10p per month, so do we need to add this up and put this in part I?

Thanks again!




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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2011, 09:59:43 PM »
Hi everyone, I have am in a very similar situation to emmylou and was wondering the same thing about an account in the UKC's name only.

I am a USC and husband in a UKC, and I am filing Married Filing Separately. He has a savings account under his name only, but it is where I move what's left of my earned income at the end of each month. Do I need to include this in the FBAR?

thanks! :)




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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2011, 10:07:28 PM »
From what I have read he would file as married filing separately and where it asks for my social security number he would put NRA? Is this the same for the FBAR? Should we apply for an ITIN or is this more hassle than its worth?

I have just been reading a little about Schedule B, part I regarding declaring interest on the account. I have a savings account in my name only which i assume we don't have to declare? The interest on our joint account amounts to something ridiculous like 10p per month, so do we need to add this up and put this in part I.

NRA will do fine for the 1040. For the FBAR, the instructions say “The filer may leave blank items for which no information is available”. Imho, NRA would be OK as well. Others with more knowledge may disagree. If you have an ITIN, your husband can claim you as an exemption, provided you have no gross income for U.S. tax purposes and are not the dependent of another U.S. taxpayer. It may not matter now, but someday it might be very useful. You can apply now or nearer the time when it may be useful.

The interest bearing accounts your husband would list on Schedule B (Part I) are those for which he is the owner (sole or joint). He would not list any account for which you are the sole owner, provided he files as ‘married filing separately’.

The instructions state you must file Schedule B if “You had over $1,500 of taxable interest or ordinary dividends”. Nonetheless, imho, your husband must file Schedule B due to the $10,000+ in a foreign bank account (Part III). If there is less than $1,500 many on here would say you don’t have to list them in Part I or II, and that there’s no need to give the IRS any information that is not required.

It’s an uncomfortable time to be a US citizen with a foreign bank account, even though it’s a completely honest account to which your husband is entitled. Imho, I see no disadvantage in listing the accounts (US and UK). If your husband files Form 2555 (FEIE) and all his income is excluded, his personal exemption of $3,650 and standard deduction of $5,700 should more than cover the interest/dividends from Schedule B, and result in $0 tax due, provided there is no other income which when combined with the interest/dividends equals more than $9,350. But that’s just the way I would do it. Absolutely everything has been declared.

There may well be further posts from the professionals (and others) who vehemently disagree with that last paragraph.

Xpost with forkandspoon

forkandspoon, what you do with your funds when they leave your account doesn't matter, as long as it's legal. There's no need to include his account.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:41:35 PM by theOAP »


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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 09:34:53 AM »
Thanks for the response!

My husband didnt work for the whole of 2010 so we dont have to file 2555 (i think?) As he had no foreign income earned, we'll save that fun for next year!

We'll just declare everything then and if they want to know about the £1.20 that was accrued in interest so be it!

Im mostly worried about the FBAR but im pretty confident about filling that out.
Phew - who knew it would be so tricky to do all this stuff!




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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 01:52:00 PM »
Doesn't it seem like we US citizens trying to live in the UK, get screwed doubly? First the UKBA charges hefty amounts for various visas and so on to enable you to live there. And then the US makes you jump through hoops over taxes, even if you don't owe them anything. And all we want to do is live peacefully in another country!
>^.^<
Married and moved to UK 1974
Returned to US 1995
Irish citizenship June 2009
    Irish passport September 2009 
Retirement July 2012
Leeds in 2013!
ILR (Long Residence) 22 March 2016


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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2011, 03:43:48 PM »
Yep, hence I'm seriously considering renouncing. I don't want to, I really don't. But I've had a headache for the last 3 days because of my US taxes.

It says all over the IRS forms, "how can we improve the IRS?".

I'll tell you how, stop paying your army of IRS bods a fortune to process the tax returns of US citizens abroad WHO DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING.


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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2011, 04:33:07 PM »
It makes me seriously consider whether or not I want our potential future children to be dual citizens! We'd want them to have as many opportunities open to them as possible but im sure they wont thank us when it comes to the time for them to start doing taxes!




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Re: Filling out FBAR
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2011, 07:03:05 PM »
You won't have the choice - they will automatically be US citizens.  They could renounce when they are 18.


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