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Topic: No Guns?  (Read 6513 times)

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No Guns?
« on: March 10, 2011, 04:24:18 AM »
I came from America, and was talking with a member of the Metropolitian Police today and he was telling me the story of Tony Martin, a farmer who was protecting his property. Well, he shot one guy and killed him (Which is good. The kid was no stranger to police and I am sure few would mourn his death.) The other guy fell into some sort of booby-trap and got hurt really bad. Well, the officer was telling me how ignorant the gun laws are over here and I agree. Is the government so stupid than to think that the bad guys don't have guns? What do we do as citizens to protect ourselves and our families...use bad langauge? He also said that the police are getting close to 60 to 120 guns off the streets every month from gangs, vagrants, homeless, and minorities. All of these people he says, have had run ins with the law at sometime or the other. People who are law-abiding citizens should have the right to own whatever sort of gun they want. You may say...well there is no need to own a pistol or an assualt rifle. Well guess what NEWSFLASH!!! They will ALL kill you or someone else just as dead. Planet Earth is a dangerous place...espeacially those places inhabited by people....so we should have the right to protect ourselves. Its time the NRA of the UK start pushing some good legislation through at Parliment to allow the taxpayers, and the good people of Britian to have guns. Just my thoughts...Don't want to offend anyone....but what's right is right.


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 06:54:41 AM »
And a nice welcome to you, as well.   ???
Love your life, poor as it is. You may perhaps have some pleasant, thrilling, glorious hours, even in a poorhouse. The setting sun is reflected from the windows of the almshouse as brightly as from the rich man’s abode; the snow melts before its doors as early in the spring. Cultivate property like a garden herb, like sage. Do not trouble yourself much to get new things, whether clothes or friends. Turn the old; return to them. Things do not change; we change. Sell your clothes and keep your thoughts…


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 08:17:33 AM »
I think I remember you from before.

I am not a gun lover per se, but a gun user.  I took rifle at uni as my gym.  I belonged to a rod and gun club in high school.  I joined the Air Force.  I would gladly go to a shooting range here if I could.

That said, Tony Martin shot an unarmed fleeing teenager in his back and killed him and a booby trap could have caught anyone. 

It might have been fine in the US, it might have been if if had shot him when he was entering the house.  Neither of those happened, it is clearly illegal here.  Jail time was appropriate.


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 08:30:49 AM »
Well, I don't know about jail...I do beleive however he needed to be charged with maybe manslaughter...but prison is not where he belongs. What kind of message does that send to the criminals? I will tell you.....They feel more empowered. I think the inncident should be looked at as an example. Hey, if you go one someone's property to wreek havoc or to commit a crime...then it is at your own risk. The bottom line is...I'd rather be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6. I was just airing a rant...not trying to start a debate or anything. Hell, it's the UK's people's own fault that they have no guns in the first place.


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 08:55:37 AM »
It might have been fine in the US, it might have been if if had shot him when he was entering the house.

Depends where in the US. As a former resident of New York State, which has pretty strong gun control laws, I get tired of British people portraying all Americans as a bunch of gun-toting NRA supporters who buy assault rifles at Walmart.

In general, human life is considered to be more valuable than property. There are laws in the US regarding self defense and what is considered reasonable behaviour in a situation.

And why do you put gangs, vagrants, homeless and minorities together in one category?

Since when are minorities and homeless people automatically removed from the category of law-abiding citizens?

Maybe you should think about why people become "bad guys" in the first place - before gun ownership even becomes an issue.

Background - I have a degree in poli sci/pre-law and have worked in the criminal justice system in the US and dated (for a very short time) someone who worked in a women's prison

I know of 2 people who have been shot.

One was my friend's brother. He shot himself in the mouth and killed himself with his father's gun (father was a retired police officer) when he was about 18 or 19.

The other was a teacher who was shot in the bum by a student. I happened to meet her right after she had been shot and she was unable to sit down

P.S. Some people in the UK hunt with guns and I believe there are some gun collectors.

P.P.S. Welcome
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 09:01:48 AM by sweetpeach »


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 08:59:33 AM »
I was just quoting what the officer said...I did characterize any certain group.


UK shows that gun control doesn’t work
From the UK Daily Mail:

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade
by James Black

Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year  -  a rise of 89 per cent.

In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.

In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled.

The statistic will fuel fears that the police are struggling to contain gang-related violence, in which the carrying of a firearm has become increasingly common place.

Last week, police in London revealed they had begun carrying out armed patrols on some streets.

The move means officers armed with sub-machine guns are engaged in routine policing for the first time.

Shadow Home Secretary, Chris Grayling, said last night: ‘In areas dominated by gang culture, we’re now seeing guns used to settle scores between rivals as well as turf wars between rival drug dealers.

‘We need to redouble our efforts to deal with the challenge.’

He added: ‘These figures are all the more alarming given that it is only a week since the Metropolitan Police said it was increasing regular armed patrols in some areas of the capital’.

The gun crime figures, which were obtained by the Tories from official Parliamentary answers, do not include air weapons.
But they provide the first regional breakdown of the increasing use of firearms.

Lancashire suffered the single largest rise in gun crime, with recorded offences increasing from 50 in 1998/99 to 349 in 2007/08, an increase of 598 per cent.



Armed: Officers engaged in routine policing are carrying sub-machine guns for the first time

Only four police forces – Cleveland-Humberside, Cambridgeshire and Sussex – recorded falls in gun crime.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .

The figures follow a warning by Mr Grayling that U.S.-style gang culture has reached some parts of the UK.

In August, he made a controversial speech warning that a collapse of ‘civilised life’ had allowed a brutal drug and gun crime culture – like that of the U.S. TV show The Wire – to flourish in Britain.

The hit TV series tracks the nightmare of gangs and organized crime in inner city West Baltimore and the futile efforts of police to deal with them.

The Met’s decision to employ armed officers on the streets has attracted criticism.

But the force, which has already begun the scheme, insists that the unprecedented tactic is a proportionate and temporary response to prevent armed gangs from controlling estates.

Trident poster campaign warning of dangers of young women and girls storing and transporting guns for others

Last month, police warned that teenage girls were now being dragged into the gun culture by hiding weapons for their boyfriends.

Police are targeting girls between 15 and 19 with an advertising blitz warning them that they can expect a five-year prison sentence if they are caught.

The number of women charged with firearms offenses in London has increased six-fold in the past year  -  12 have been charged since January.

Seven of them were teenagers, including a 16-year-old arrested after a 9mm Browning self-loading pistol was found in her bedroom.


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 09:02:24 AM »
Someone needs to explain the Daily Mail to you. I don't have time right now. Anyone?


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 09:10:11 AM »
Wow.
My Project 365 photo blog: Snaps!


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2011, 09:13:06 AM »
Check ou this video:

Gun Control is a Myth UK [nofollow]


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2011, 09:14:19 AM »
Listen to the good British people speak....

British Want Their Guns Back [nofollow]


Re: No Guns?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2011, 09:22:13 AM »
All this sounds like someone else we used to have about here (he also had a rant about guns IIRC but I can't seem to find it)...methinks they're one in the same person:
http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=66208.0
http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=66209.0


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2011, 09:24:37 AM »
So your solution to the problem of more guns being on the streets is to allow more guns on the streets?  America's gun laws are certainly no model for how the UK should deal with guns.  


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2011, 09:25:40 AM »
???.....Have no idea who that is. But I can't say that I don't agree with him.


Re: No Guns?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2011, 09:27:38 AM »
???.....Have no idea who that is. But I can't say that I don't agree with him.

Well the site owner will be able to tell, because each time a person posts their IP address is logged and if you are the same person the addresses will match. So I guess we will eventually find out if you are or not.


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Re: No Guns?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2011, 09:27:45 AM »
OK, I don't have time to watch your stupid videos, but the vast majority of British people just aren't that interested in guns, and nobody I've ever talked to has expressed any desire to have the gun culture of the US; in fact, they find it appalling and are proud of the gun control here. Handguns are the only thing banned here, and there are even exceptions for those, and hunting weapons are readily available. The Daily Mail is a complete rag and can't be taken as serious journalism. Considering that even carrying a handgun is an offence and Labour tightened a lot of the rules making previous non-offences into crimes, those 9800+ offences could easily be just having a gun. It doesn't mean there has been a spree of gun crime. The per capita murder rate of the entire UK (0.014 per 1000 people ) is less than many US cities (eg 0.24 per 1000 people in Washington DC), and only a very tiny percentage is because of firearms here while it's a major factor in the US. The lack of gun culture is one of the best things about the UK for me, and I hope the tight regulations stay and handguns continue to be banned.
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