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Topic: Hellllooooooooooo!  (Read 4787 times)

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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2011, 11:57:10 PM »
Well my last post was in respect to me applying for the sport visa not as a general visitor.

The same guidelines apply in terms of ties to home country, etc.  A sports visitor visa is intended to allow people to come to the UK for a very specific and well documented sport-related purpose where a long term work visa is not appropriate.  You want to live here without the necessary visa.  Honestly, there's no loophole.  You are not even close to being the first person who's tried to find one.

Have you considered Australia?  They have a working holidaymaker visa that I understand is easy to get.  Worth a try.
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

--Francis Cabrel


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2011, 10:05:16 AM »
I'll have to agree with these guys who know all the rules inside out. But the question is intriguing....

People flit about gambling all the time. Is it a hobby? A vocation? A sport? If you win 20K at the tables, when does that become a job? 20K to me would be like an income, but Michael Jordon bets that much on a single golf put. Is there a time limit which means it's work? Like 10 days in a row at the tables? Two months? I have friends back in Florida who go to the Hard Rock every night. The money the win goes straight into the same bank account as their paychecks (I have no idea about taxes as I've never gambled). Are they professional gamblers? Does the fact that you may be good at it qualify it as work?

All that being said these guys are almost assuredly right, the guy at the desk might very well send you home.

But why not Panama, or another banana republic? A dollar there goes much further than in London.

I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2011, 10:14:20 AM »
I think when you use it as a primary income to support you, then it is work. (so, you depend on it, you don't just get lucky once in awhile). I imagine there might be some sort of amount of time spent on it issues as well.

I can see where the embassy might have steered you wrong though! Of COURSE they want you to come over here and gamble (especially if they had no idea you were a pro!), more money for the UK tourism and gambling industries!

In the US, you can write off gambling losses (and you are taxed on profits (perhaps after a certain amount)). In the UK, there is no tax on "winnings", but you can't write off the losses.  (DH gambles on US politics, we had an especially good year during the last presidential election). However, if it is your business, then you would pay tax, I am sure. Don't worry, HMRC has got that covered.  ;D

If you are considering travelling elsewhere, I recently went on holiday in Nicaragua. It is amazingly cheap there (we know someone else who plays poker for a living, and he is actually planning on moving down), fairly easy to get a residency permit (and cheap, again), and there is no issue with internet access and etc.


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2011, 12:17:36 PM »
I'll have to agree with these guys who know all the rules inside out. But the question is intriguing....

People flit about gambling all the time. Is it a hobby? A vocation? A sport? If you win 20K at the tables, when does that become a job? 20K to me would be like an income, but Michael Jordon bets that much on a single golf put. Is there a time limit which means it's work? Like 10 days in a row at the tables? Two months? I have friends back in Florida who go to the Hard Rock every night. The money the win goes straight into the same bank account as their paychecks (I have no idea about taxes as I've never gambled). Are they professional gamblers? Does the fact that you may be good at it qualify it as work?

All that being said these guys are almost assuredly right, the guy at the desk might very well send you home.

But why not Panama, or another banana republic? A dollar there goes much further than in London.



http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=169490,00.html


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2011, 03:27:06 PM »
Well money isn't really an issue. It is more along the lines of the fact that is similar to the us. I have met brits in the military. It is safe and it is a place I have never been. Lots of friends have gone to canada with no issue, but I have been and to be honest I wanted more of an adventure.

It just seems so ridiculous to me, if I follow the rules, don't take advantage of nhs, contribute to the economy why they would have any issue with me visiting. I will take a day trip to dc and see if I can speak with someone in person who is either an IO or who can tell me what to do an apply for.


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2011, 03:33:52 PM »
The embassy has nothing to do with visas.  There are no IOs there.  You might have better luck at the consulate in NY, though likely not.  I'm curious, though, as to why you think you should be able to bend the rules?

OK, let's try this.  If you earn money in the UK then you have to pay taxes on it.  You say you want to contribute to the economy, and you don't want to break the law, so you've got no choice there.  Since you won't have an employer, you'll have to register as self-employed.  To do that, you'll need a national insurance number.  To get a national insurance number, you have to be a legal resident with permission to work.  You won't be.  So how do you propose to handle that?  If you don't pay taxes, you are breaking UK law, but you can't pay taxes because your status doesn't permit you to work.  This is why you need a visa, and if you can't get a visa, then you can't come here and work.  The laws are designed the way they are to prevent people from doing exactly what you propose.  As I said before, you're not the first person to try this.  It hasn't worked for anyone else, so why should you be different? 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 03:41:19 PM by historyenne »
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

--Francis Cabrel


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2011, 05:54:22 PM »
Quote
It just seems so ridiculous to me, if I follow the rules, don't take advantage of nhs, contribute to the economy why they would have any issue with me visiting.

They don't have an issue with you visiting. The point is that what you are proposing to do is NOT visiting, it is living here, and you aren't allowed to do that on a visitor visa.
Arrived as student 9/2003; Renewed student visa 9/2006; Applied for HSMP approval 1/2008; HSMP approved 3/2008; Tier 1 General FLR received 4/2008; FLR(M) Unmarried partner approved (in-person) 27/8/2009; ILR granted at in-person PEO appointment 1/8/2011; Applied for citizenship at Edinburgh NCS 31/10/2011; Citizenship approval received 4/2/2012
FINALLY A CITIZEN! 29/2/2012


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2011, 06:16:52 PM »
Let's imagine Devil had come in here and phrased this differently: I have sufficient means to support myself as a visitor for 6 months, can I gamble online? And to what limit?

Would that have changed anything?






I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2011, 06:23:59 PM »
I doubt it.  If you can't so much as babysit once for a friend I don't see why they would allow you to gamble online.  Then follows tax implications, so the questions would have to follow that would lead to the discovery of illegal working anyway.


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2011, 08:20:22 PM »
Book grl are you saying that no foreigners can gamble in a live casino? While I don't know if it is exactly legal I really can't imagine that it isn't and I certainly know they do.

I have no intentions of breaking any law what so ever. I have every intention of visiting the uk, I plan on playing live in the casinos and playing online. I have spoken with online poker companies and made sure I can play with them. They have no issues.

I am going to find someone at some point and speak with them and find out what exactly I need to apply for. I want to do this because considering what I have read on these forums and what I know it seems like a place I would like very much. If I do like it, I imagine I would want to go back and I don't want to do anything to jeopardize that from happening. That and my entire life I have never gotten trouble I would like it to continue that way.

I know for a fact an average person who is visiting can come to the UK visit, play poker live and online and bet on events at various bookies. So it annoys me that because I am not an average person in the fact that I can make more then enough money to support myself via playing that it excludes me from visiting or it at least makes it extremely difficult.
I'm sorry if I am come off rude at all. I really don't mean to be. I really would like to be a good member of this forum but I sort of feel like I'm being attacked as some sort of rule breaker or being regarded as stupid.

To be honest when I read about a general visitor I was certain that is what  applied to me. I spoke to someone who I thought had given me correct info at the embassy. I had spoken with online gaming companies to confirm that I could play. I didn't consider poker to be a job or at least it  to be applicable to me from a visa standpoint since it isn't taking a job from anyone in the UK. I figured if I had enough money which I do, and I only plan to stay for the legal amount of time which I do, I was good to go. if you really want to get technical about it I have a job now and I will until I leave. When I go to the UK I expect to play poker and I expect to make a reasonable amount of money from it. I will come in with enough money to support myself but I expect to make money playing. That could be said for a variety of people who know how to play poker and who know how to win betting on sports(not me lol). I do find it ridiculous that I am again getting punished because I excel at a game of skill. I don't agree with it but I do abide by it. If I didn't abide by rules I would just secure a vpn open a bank account and call it a day and play from the states and live life.

I am aware that it appears I am incorrect about my thoughts on the gen visitor and I am trying to find out what is the correct way about doing this.

I again want to apologize if I offended anyone. It is a combination of not expecting the original response I got, being overly sensitive, and being overly frustrated right now with the current US poker situation so I'm sorry.

I also would like to pose a hypothetical question: say a guy is self employed. Let's say he is a day trader and can trade american stocks online. Since he now has accumulated a large amount of wealth and can do his job with research and trade online he wishes to travel since he has that personal freedom. He would be able to visit the UK correct? He expects to make money while in the UK. What about him is any different from me assuming he wants to stay for 6 months to explore London? Yes I am opening a UK bank account to make my life easier and because I don't want to carry large sums of money around. I don't have to do it though. This is why I can't wrap my head around this.


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2011, 08:30:42 PM »
You can play in person at a casino, I have done it, but the question is can you do it as a way to support yourself.

The day trader would not be allowed to continue trading in the UK.  People who have online business, such web sales, can't continue trading.  Writers can't come over and write. 

Yes, it would be hard for the UKBA to catch them, but it is illegal and if you do it is a ban.



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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2011, 08:32:57 PM »
No one is offended, we're just trying to make you understand. 

UK immigration law doesn't have anything to do with whether you take a job from a UK citizen or not.  They just don't want you to live here without a visa.  IOs don't know you from Adam, if you can earn money whilst living in the UK without a visa, if you've already got a bank account and a flat, they're going to wonder why you would ever leave.  And you leaving is what they'll be most interested in.   

Remember that you don't have the right to visit another country.  It's a privilege, and you have to follow whatever rules that country sets down in order to be granted that privilege.  Even if you don't like them. 
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

--Francis Cabrel


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2011, 08:39:35 PM »
Two things. I never said I should be allowed to break any rules or laws. Americans have won and played online poker on these sites from the Uk and other countries and continue to do it all the time. Our community tends to love Thailand because you can live like a king for 50K a year. As for taxes as long as I file quarterly in the US which I have to when I play I am fine. I am not tax free while play over seas because the irs does not consider gambling generated income while on travel or over seas so I don't get the up to 87.5k tax break, yet I have to file while I am stateside when I used to play online and live. I will never figure that one out. As for the UK the people I have met who have done this didn't pay taxes and those who have won large sums of money who were visiting also did not pay taxes because gaming isn't taxed in the UK.

I have also read that poker pros in the uk don't pay taxes as well on their winnings. I don't know the exact details, but I can ptovide the links to the information. I am obviously not nearly as clued in to the UK tax situation as you guys are nor do I have any idea how these guys filed or even if you have to file or how it works but I do know the majority of their income is made from what I like to say sarcastically the very exciting gaming tables.


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2011, 08:42:04 PM »
Enne I can't quote from my phone but I think that was an excellent way of putting it. And it isn't that I don't understand, it is that I just don't like it:).


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Re: Hellllooooooooooo!
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2011, 08:51:24 PM »
And Enne I have every intention of leaving. I have a return ticket. I have a temp rental and then I planned on renting a shared room for the rest of the time just to be cost conscious. I wasn't sure how successful I would be about getting housing though and figured I'd may have to stick with vacation rentals. I did think that would have been a plus since it would show I had housing?

 As for the bank account I honestly didn't figure it mattered. I have never left the states outside of the Marines and really had no idea the IO would be so invasive. I was def taken aback by the bank statements. But it made sense five seconds later after I thought about it.

I have forgotten the point of this post haha.


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