BBC - Americanisms: 50 of your most noted examples

I will tell you I read DH this article and he was laughing and saying some of this stuff has been said since he was a child and wasn't american - obviously.

The kids do say can I have a (insert fruit/drink here) I never think it is rude but they say please. Now I know May I was always more polite but I won't pick battles as long as please and thank you are said and it isn't offending IMO 

I'd rather hear "can I have...." than "I want....."

'May I' is asking permission, as in 'May I have ...', asking the person if they will allow you to have it, or get it for you if they are waiting on you.

I think "May I" is so overly polite it can come off as sarcastic. There is such a thing as being too formal.

I think "May I" is so overly polite it can come off as sarcastic. There is such a thing as being too formal.

Not to my ears. I suppose it's what you're used to hearing but, to me, "may I" sounds correct and definitely not overly formal.

The may/can difference is grammatical and has nothing to do with manners.  How is saying "can I" offensive to any sense other than grammar?  Adding "please" to the request is where the manners come in.  It makes it a request and not a demand or expectation while recognising the other person having to extend effort to fulfil the request. Oh, I suppose this will lead to a huge debate about whether proper grammar is about manners, but I sort of think that implying that this example of poor grammar (or I suppose to some, a difference in what is standard grammar) is rooted in American usage, and then to call it rude is one of the ways these types of articles and the "debate" it provokes runs to the vile and offensive, even if it is one of the more abstract ways.

It was hammered into our heads to use "may".  I probably slip up a lot with this, but it's not something I lose sleep over.  I am sure that no one loses sleep over the dialects here that say "he were sat there", which more than likely appears in American speech as well, especially in the young, but is never blamed on the Cockneys.

The may/can difference is grammatical and has nothing to do with manners.  How is saying "can I" offensive to any sense other than grammar?  

It's offensive because of the way we're taught to be polite. Or, most of us, at any rate. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to feel offended by it - just that that's the way it is. I was taught - both at home and at school - that I should use 'may' rather than 'can' when asking permission for something. I was taught that it good manners to do so. And, after nearly 50 years of speaking that way and being surrounded by friends and family who speak that way, it does sound jarring and 'off' to my ears when someone uses 'can.' So, yes, it's all down to the individual and what he/she is accustomed to hearing.

But I'm not sure it has nothing to do with manners. Good manners are subjective, after all, and if a person views saying 'can' as bad manners, then to that person it is bad manners. Except in obvious and extreme cases, I think the concept of good manners is a very fluid notion.

You were taught that because "can" and "may" mean two different things (which were pointed out upthread).  Using "can" doesn't mean that you are putting extra demands on the person you are asking.  You might associate it with good manners because, generally, asking for things in a proper way, one that doesn't seem like you are being unreasonable or rude was probably taught at the same time you were taught the grammar.

Manners are generally subjective, but are universal insofar as they usually boil down to taking others' feelings into consideration when getting along with the world.  Having someone speak to you  with what you perceive is proper grammar is something we can't always expect, and to hold it as a sensibility that shouldn't be offended is a bit precious.  People can have poor grammar and be very well mannered and polite.

I agree with chary.  Regardless of the technicalities of grammar vs manners, it has everything to do with manners when you were taught that it's good manners.  I was taught that it was respectful to address people appropriately and to speak properly to them.  Saying "can I get..." wasn't respectful or correct.  It's all perception.

Don't get me wrong, it's not as if I never say "can I have..." or "could you get me a...", but when I do, it's to my close friends or family, an informal setting.  A deli or a coffee shop may be an informal public setting, but if the person who is serving me isn't my friend, then I was taught to ask for things politely in a certain way.

I know it probably seems ridiculous to some people, who don't see what the big deal is.  It's not even a big deal to me, and I don't get my panties in a twist if someone asks differently, but it's just the way I do it and it certainly isn't doing anyone any harm! 

You were taught that because "can" and "may" mean two different things (which were pointed out upthread). 

I was taught that, but I was also taught that it was impolite to say "can".

Regardless of the technicalities of grammar vs manners, it has everything to do with manners when you were taught that it's good manners.

Yup. And, like NoseOverTail, I feel that it's not a big deal. If I hear someone say "can", I'm not going to correct them. It's just that it doesn't sound polite to me.

So either of you should be able to explain why it's impolite to use "can" other than that's what you were told was impolite.

ETA: And, yes, I can explain how every bit of etiquette I was taught relates to taking others' feelings into consideration.

So either of you should be able to explain why it's impolite to use "can" other than that's what you were told was impolite.

Why does it matter?  Does there need to be a solid explanation?  I'm sure some scholar on social customs has one, but I don't.  It's just what I was taught!  It's custom, it's tradition even.  It's just one of those things that some random people decided many moons ago was the right way to do something. Some people still feel that way and teach their children accordingly.  Some people don't.  Why is anything impolite?  Why is it impolite to fart or burp in front of company when it never used to be 1000 years ago?  I don't know!  But it's what I was taught!  I'm sure it's not impolite in other places.  Heck, I think in some places it's rude if you don't burp because it means your hosts meal wasn't satisfying.

There are plenty of things I was taught that I've since challenged and found to not be relevant to the way I want to lead my life.  Saying "May I please have..." just wasn't one of them. 

The reason it matters is because something is being described as originating in a culture and then being characterised as rude.  Simple as that.  There are reasons for all sorts of etiquette, and if the reasons are lost in time, it probably is time to no longer follow that piece of etiquette.  We're not talking about the reasons behind each step of the Japanese tea ceremony here, or why it's tradition to curtsey to the Queen, but day to day etiquette which has more to do with how we interact with others than echoes of culture and "that's just how we do things".

If you were to accept that it isn't polite or impolite, it would still be seen as bad grammar to many, which I can't help but see as the crux of the issue to begin with.


ETA: I guess I am surprised that I am the only one that can't see how calling something "rude" and "American" is totally different than calling something "bad grammar" and "American".  Again, this is by far one of the smaller and more abstract problems with articles like this, and not a point made by the original author, but the "debate" sparked.

Since this is such a minor point of an issue we're not supposed to care about, I guess I am also surprised that it garnered any response.

The US did pick up on this article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/hey-we-dont-think-britishisms-are-the-dogs-bollocks-either/2011/07/21/gIQAFUq6RI_blog.html
It's small but I giggled.

I am sure that no one loses sleep over the dialects here that say "he were sat there", which more than likely appears in American speech as well, especially in the young, but is never blamed on the Cockneys.

I hear 'were' in place of 'was' all the time over here and although it is something I just can't get used to, I'd never point out to anyone that he/she is wrong for saying it (according to the way I was taught). I just giggle inside my head and move on. I can't remember now what we were watching but hubby and I watched a comedy show a while back and one man kept saying 'were' and the other would correct him and say 'was'. That comes to mind when I hear someone saying 'were'.

I accepted long ago that for it all being English, there are certainly two versions of it between the two countries.

The reason it matters is because something is being described as originating in a culture and then being characterised as rude.  Simple as that.  There are reasons for all sorts of etiquette, and if the reasons are lost in time, it probably is time to no longer follow that piece of etiquette.  We're not talking about the reasons behind each step of the Japanese tea ceremony here, or why it's tradition to curtsey to the Queen, but day to day etiquette which has more to do with how we interact with others than echoes of culture and "that's just how we do things".

If you were to accept that it isn't polite or impolite, it would still be seen as bad grammar to many, which I can't help but see as the crux of the issue to begin with.

I'm sorry I just can't give you any other answer because, from me personally, there isn't one.  Maybe it stems from grammar, maybe at some point people thought it was inappropriate/impolite to use bad grammar and somehow my grandparents and great grandparents and so on, caught onto the idea but left out the details for those of us further down the line.  I don't know, but I'm sure someone out there does.  But why is grammar a more suitable and convincing answer than manners?  I just don't see why the reason is important, and I don't see why, if there isn't a reason for it anymore, people should just get over it.  It's language, not obsolete technology.  If it becomes irrelevant, then it will go away on it's own like thou, thy, methinks, etc.  For the time being, it's still relevant to some people, so it stays.

When it comes down to it, it's all a bunch of hot garbage anyway, really, including grammar.  No one's truly right, no one's truly wrong.  But we're humans, so we feel like we have to categorise everything and we also have to disagree on everything.    So I'll go on using the manners I was taught and not really think about it.  Like I said, it's not a big deal to me, and I really don't care if people don't think it's rude.  I don't judge them as some heathen or savage for saying "Can I get...", it's just not how I would do it. 

I edited my post you quoted, but it is different because saying something is "rude" and is more widespread in America is totally different than saying that something is "grammatically different" or even the more negative "bad grammar" and American.