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Topic: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown  (Read 2975 times)

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UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« on: October 10, 2011, 03:29:56 PM »
David Cameron launches immigration crackdown

• Public urged to report suspected illegal immigrants
• Forced marriage could become criminal offence
• Proposal for families of would-be immigrants to pay cash bond
• Citizenship test to include questions on British history
August 2008 - Tier 4 - Student Visa
February 2010 - Tier 1 - PSW
January 2012 - FLR(M)
June 2014 - ILR (finally!)


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 03:46:52 PM »
• Proposal for families of would-be immigrants to pay cash bond
• Citizenship test to include questions on British history

will the cash bond be fornew settlement visa,s or does this effect ILR

citizenship test on british history,like there isnt more to worry about with the ecomomy and job losses,plus many have passed a KOL test,im British and i dont know history...unless im entering a gameshow that WOULD aquire me reading up on and being useful,i wouldnt bother using it


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 04:09:15 PM »
Well I think knowing things about British history would be far more useful than knowing the proportion of people who are Muslims based on the last census etc.

He states that these measures can bring immigration back to 1970's and '80's levels....they can't. Unless they take steps to withdraw from the EU they cannot reduce immigration to such levels, that is where the bulk of immigration comes from.
"We don't want our chocolate to get cheesy!"


Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 10:10:14 AM »
I think it was Garry who explained why the questions and materials on the KOL test are the way they are.  It's to support integration rather than to ensure an immigrant knows history.  For instance, questions on women's roles in the UK, where victims of domestic violence can turn, and cultural views of modesty/marriage/etc give women from less egalitarian cultures the knowledge they aren't without recourse to help and support here.  And since everyone has to take the test, she would have to learn the material.  Other things like worker's rights help to prevent exploitation by people who expect immigrants, particularly from non-Western countries, to not know they have rights here.  I honestly think that the percentages and emphasis on things like Americans being a huge percentage of immigration was to counter the rags constantly making it look like there was some brown Muslim tsunami going on, and that the UK never asked for people to come here to to fill roles that native British wouldn't.

I wouldn't mind a more balanced approach, but I think there should be at least the chance that some of the materials would be covered.  I don't think it was really a bad thing, I just think it was a bit clumsily executed.  It's not really a surprise that the KOL test is changing.  I wouldn't be surprised that when power switches hands again, if it still exists, it will be changed again because you can expect the new one to be as Tory friendly as the current one is Labour friendly.


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 01:07:35 PM »
Cheap headline grab on Dave's part. Economy is tanking....laying off 60,000 people...so let's put more history into the immigrant's test....that and less EU. We are still part of the EU aren't we?

I for one love history - my cat is named Stafford Cripps for goodness sake - and don't see any reason why more shouldn't be included on the test (and occasionally mentioned in the schools). But it smokescreens the more heinous aspects of this story.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 05:57:18 PM »
 "was to counter the rags constantly making it look like there was some brown Muslim tsunami going on, and that the UK never asked for people to come here to to fill roles that native British wouldn't."

Perhaps before you accuse the "rags" of being economical with the truth you might check your own facts.

Immigration after WW2 was encouraged because we had  nearly 500,000 deaths during the 6 years of the war,  nearly 1% of the population causing a massive labour shortage.  It was not because of the rubbish printed in rags like the Guardian that British people do not want work, a ruse to cover up their complicity in defending  Labour's open door immigration policy.

 Commonwealth or Empire peoples whatever you want to call them had the right to settle upto the early 60's , partly because of the shortage and partly in thanks for the fact  they had fought beside us . The post 70's immigration was compounded by the free movement of labour policies of the  EU,  carried out despite the objections of the population, and the later open door policy from outside the EU, was a cynical  political project predominately by Labour with the complicity of the LibDems and Conservatives. The British people of all races and creeds, do not want unlimited immigration or any more primary immigration for that matter,  and believe it or not,  it is their  opinion that counts.

Whilst the Mail and the rest of the "rags" may have strong opinions, they are opinions that represent the majority. The  Guardian in contrast, which seems the paper of choice for many on this site,  is hardly read in the wider community  apart from the handwringing  liberal fraternity, and the lefty community who believe it is our duty to carry colonial guilt with us wherever we go. Fortunately for the country this type of thinking is slowly being marginalised, and consigned to the student debating society where it escaped from.


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 06:17:49 PM »
Whilst the Mail and the rest of the "rags" may have strong opinions, they are opinions that represent the majority. The  Guardian in contrast, which seems the paper of choice for many on this site,  is hardly read in the wider community  apart from the handwringing  liberal fraternity, and the lefty community who believe it is our duty to carry colonial guilt with us wherever we go. Fortunately for the country this type of thinking is slowly being marginalised, and consigned to the student debating society where it escaped from.

At least you admit the Mail is largely opinion-based "news." That's what makes it so unfortunate. People can choose their newspaper based on what opinion they agree with and never have to consider unbiased fact or the other side of the argument. Then that narrow-minded view influences government policy.


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 06:37:58 PM »
The study guide for the Life in the UK test actually starts with a good, even-handed history of Britain. It's just that they tell you up front there are no questions on the test from that chapter.


Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 06:58:32 PM »
"was to counter the rags constantly making it look like there was some brown Muslim tsunami going on, and that the UK never asked for people to come here to to fill roles that native British wouldn't."

Perhaps before you accuse the "rags" of being economical with the truth you might check your own facts.

Immigration after WW2 was encouraged because we had  nearly 500,000 deaths during the 6 years of the war,  nearly 1% of the population causing a massive labour shortage.  It was not because of the rubbish printed in rags like the Guardian that British people do not want work, a ruse to cover up their complicity in defending  Labour's open door immigration policy.

 Commonwealth or Empire peoples whatever you want to call them had the right to settle upto the early 60's , partly because of the shortage and partly in thanks for the fact  they had fought beside us . The post 70's immigration was compounded by the free movement of labour policies of the  EU,  carried out despite the objections of the population, and the later open door policy from outside the EU, was a cynical  political project predominately by Labour with the complicity of the LibDems and Conservatives. The British people of all races and creeds, do not want unlimited immigration or any more primary immigration for that matter,  and believe it or not,  it is their  opinion that counts.

Whilst the Mail and the rest of the "rags" may have strong opinions, they are opinions that represent the majority. The  Guardian in contrast, which seems the paper of choice for many on this site,  is hardly read in the wider community  apart from the handwringing  liberal fraternity, and the lefty community who believe it is our duty to carry colonial guilt with us wherever we go. Fortunately for the country this type of thinking is slowly being marginalised, and consigned to the student debating society where it escaped from.

Before reaching out to the keyboard to flame people, you should actually read the post you're trolling.

1) I never said the British don't or didn't want to work.  In a labour scarce market, workers have more of a choice in their careers.  Therefore, bottom rung jobs go unfilled and immigration is sometimes used to fill these jobs that the native population no longer wants to do.

2)I don't normally read The Guardian.  Sorry to disappoint you there. I know you really were hoping to insult me by calling it a rag.  I agree with you about it being a rag (although I think it's less awful than some of them, just like I think the Times and Torygraph are less awful, even though they're rags  which pander to their audience much of the time as well rather than perform the service to society a free and vigorous press is meant to).  It's really awful sometimes and gets a lot wrong.  I've even written to them correcting them at times. I've never done that with any other paper in the UK.  Sorry your barb missed its mark. :(

I actually learned about the Caribbean bus drivers from my Life in the UK study guide, which I am sure in your opinion is just as bad as reading it in The Guardian.

3)Do not assume that because someone is an immigrant that they need a history or policy lesson from you or that they are somehow less in touch with sentiments of the general public.

Onto your post.

Not all immigration after WWII came from the Commonwealth.  

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/citizenship/brave_new_world/immigration.htm

Your information and timeline regarding the Commonwealth is off. Yes, the automatic right to settle for all Commonwealth citizens was removed in the 60s, it took decades to totally remove. It was also a bit more complicated than you make it.  The history of immigration in general in the UK is a *lot* more complicated than you make it.  Otherwise Thatcher wouldn't have been able to enter government with the promise to "finally end immigration once and for all".  I mean, she would have only had to deal with EU immigration at that point, right?  I mean the floodgates hadn't been opened by Labour yet, and the Commonwealth had been supposedly cut off in the early 60s.

There was no "open door" policy under Labour.  The only major relaxation of the rules for non-EU migration was the removal of the primary purpose rule.  Maybe we should go back to the time when IOs ordered pelvic exams of Asian women to ensure they were virgins if they were coming on a fiancée visa?  Or to say that if someone is from a poor country, coming here to marry must not be the primary purpose of them applying for a visa?

The expansion of the EU was handled poorly by the Labour government.  When the rest of the EU was putting restrictions on the numbers of people from the Accession nations, having the UK along with a couple of others allow free movement was stupid.

The idea that immigrants from outside the EU are able to come here more easily during some elusive bygone modern time (usually pre-Blair) than now isn't really based in fact.  A lot of the tightening actually came during Labour's turn at Government.  It makes a nice narrative to tell people that there was some big conspiracy to pad Labour's voting base (because it only exists on the uni campuses outside the immigrant and work shy, amirite???), but if they were doing that, they did a real crap job at it.  Before New Labour, spouses pretty much could settle automatically, people could marry on visitor visas and switch status, there was no good character clause for citizenship, no citizenship test at all, no requirement for English, etc.  But you won't read that in the high quality rags such as the Express and Mail.  And, sadly, you won't read that in The Guardian.  There are very few sources for accurate information on immigration for the general public.  

As for the majority of the people holding right-wing views about immigration [citation needed] and the right-wing yellow journalism reflecting that, isn't that a circular argument?  How can it be right to have the press intentionally distort the facts to fit its readership instead of informing them.  It's a bit like a snake swallowing its tail.  Which comes first, the ignorant readers or the press sowing misinformation in its readers?

I didn't realise the press's job was to tell people what they already think they know.


ETA: It sounds like this guy would benefit from reading the Life in the UK book even before it's revised.  Jack, get yourself a copy and read. :D
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 12:26:41 AM by Legs Akimbo »


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 07:12:38 PM »
Real-time headline comparison between daily mail and guardian websites:

Daily Mail

Ready to join the jet-setters: Fortysomething £101m jackpot couple make plans to marry, holiday in Vegas and buy new pad in Chelsea

Teenage mother broke puppy's neck by hurling it on floor in fit of rage

Grandmother cycling to work killed when NINE TON fridge fell off back of lorry after driver failed to secure it


Guardian

Goldman Sachs let off £10m interest by HMRC

Gilad Shalit exchange deal reported

Lords set to vote on NHS reforms

I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2011, 12:25:11 AM »
The Daily Express main headlines the past week:
WONDER DIET CURES HEART DISEASE
CHEAPEST EVER HOME LOANS ON THE WAY
NOW FOR DIET OF TV REPEATS
-20c HITS US IN WEEKS
WILLIAM AND KATE'S £700m BABY
BRITAIN FACES A MINI "ICE AGE"
WINTER FUEL CRISIS ON WAY

I had to do it that way for them because of how they have their website set up.  There's no "news tab".

Just saying...It can actually be worse than the Mail. :P




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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2011, 12:50:09 AM »
Welllll...except the Mail just makes it up. Excellent example here -- Mail Watch caught them accidentally running an "Amanda Knox Appeal Rejected" article for a few minutes before realizing they'd published the wrong story. It's complete with eyewitness reports of her stunned reaction. Very damning.

The Mail is an absolute junk rag and a great hate object of mine. I don't care that they (or anyone else) publishes to the tastes of their readers. Partisanship isn't a sin. I care that they make sh!t up. That is a sin.

And I'm way, way to the right politically.


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2011, 08:11:53 AM »
All newspapers do that though.  I mean they can't type the story in 2.5 milliseconds to have it on the web.

I was watching Sky and the translator said she has been found guilty.  I freaked, but then the interpreter went on to explain it was guilty of the slander. But it took a minute or so to realise what she meant.

The Sky person sucked and when I heard about this I figured they were watching Sky.


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Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2011, 08:19:56 AM »
I actually enjoy the Mail as I have a weakness for tawdry celebrity gossip. But the thing is, and this is just meanderings really....they seem to really hit this sweet spot on "things are going to hell in a handcart". That good old values are eroding. It makes one feel slightly smug, holier than thou. "Benefit cheat caught breaking window"....I mean no matter what your circumstance you can stare down your nose at this person.

The thing is is that it works. It builds within a sense that the clock needs to be turned back to the good old days when everybody pulled together - and knew their place. Simpler times. But I don't believe in the good old days. Ask a black share cropper about the fifties - or a poor person in Liverpool in the 60's when there was no indoor plumbing. Because trudging out in the snow to use the loo doesn't build character...it just freezes the rear end.

And we are finding out more and more that due to the complexity of life, people make decisions based on vague feelings - things are good, or things are rotten. Issues are messy and open to spin, but a gut feeling that immigration is out of control is hard to change. As silly as these rags seem, they are very powerful.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


Re: UK: David Cameron launches immigration crackdown
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 09:33:05 AM »
The Mail isn't the only paper that just makes things up.  Especially on the subjects of the EU, immigration, migration, taxes, the dole, elf'n'safety etc.  The Express (and all the press owned by Dirty Des) pulled out of the Press Complaints Commission, so we have to rely on independent monitoring.

I don't have a problem with the press and broadcast media having an editorial stance.  I do have a problem when that stance consistently stands in the way of them reporting anything that even resembles the truth.

http://fullfact.org/
http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/index.htm
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/

That's even before the various "watches" and sites like Five Chinese Crackers.




« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 09:35:50 AM by Legs Akimbo »


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