NEED HELP FAST!! 8 year old and lying..................

 

Ok my 8 years old Samantha iwill be 9 in December. Since the start of the year she has started to lie whenever she can. The lastest has been her doing things she's not allowed to do and lying about them. The big one was her going on her bike around the block, which she is not allowed to do. She was found out by my mum who saw her on her bike as she drove by. When I told her she was found out she wasn't happy but had no reason as to why she did it. She later said as she doesn't like to only be allowed to go so far on our road. And it wasn't fair. I asked her why I don't let her go around the block and she said that it's dangerous. The road she went on is the busiest road in town. So she knows that it's wrong. She also does things she not to do like not come home from school right away, she rides her bike and one day she was 30 minutes late. On two occasions she came home with one of her friends, which we don't allow as I am one who wants to know what is happening at all times and not be surprised by a guest. She also sneeks upstairs with friends while I am downstairs with my son, 3 months. She takes things like money and toys to school and gives them away to others. I had grounded her from March to June for the moeny thing. She is now grounded until Nov 1st for the around the block thing. I have lost my mind. I am to the point of shipping her off to my mother in law in Cumbria! My husband is feeling the same way.
 
When we found out we were having another child we spent as much time with her as we could and still do. But her acting up has gotten worse. I would think it was the baby but it started before she knew I was pregnant. I know she wants to grow up but this is getting hard. She is saying she wants to kill herself,  as we grounded her, where in the world did she get this idea? I am getting very worried and not sure what to do...

if anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them, even a same idea. I am to the point of taking everything out of her room but her bed and desk. Hubby has taken away TV from her and her favorite beanie baby is next, she's had the thing for 4 years and it's eyes are all scratched up, she would be lost without him.

HELP!
 

I found that long-term grounding didn't work well with my son.  If she is overly fond of the bike, perhaps it might be good to take the bike away for a while.

I know you said that her behaviour was starting to go down hill before you knew you were pregnant, but have you considered perhaps a mum & daughter's day out?   Even if it is just to a few stores and have lunch together.  She might be feeling -- whether rightly or wrongly -- left out.

I don't want to sound alarmist, but in this situation I would really consider counseling.  Not only for the lying, but for the suicide threats.  It sounds like she is forming a very sneaky side-not just basic childlike lying, but actual sneakiness-and this may indicate a problem.
Certainly I would speak to someone.  Have a conference with her teacher, first, and see what if anything the teachers thinks/has noticed.  You can't go on like this.  She needs to respect your authotiry, but she also needs to be help if there is something really bothering her and this is "acting out" behavior.

Best of luck, keep us informed!

Thanks i can use all the help i can get. Will keep you all updated. Thanks again.

Hey Ukladybug--

I just thought that I would put my two pence in here, as some of the behavior sounds familiar to me from when I was a young child...

I always felt the need to give things to people, in the hopes that they would be my friend.  I was the 3rd of 6 daughters, and VERY different from all my sisters (emotionally and mentally).  Some people think that all of my "traits" are boiled down to left-handed therefor right-brained by many people...who knows, could be...

Anyhow, I just felt so out of place...all the time.  I acted out against everyone around me.  I wanted so desperatly to fit in, but at the same time wanted to be different and unique.  This caused great amounts of uncertainty, conflict and confusion in my life, and I many times as a young child (and into highschool) thought of suicide...and it was often a threat given to my parents.

I think that (maybe) some type of self-confidence booster may certainly help, at least in part.  Once I gained my self confidence (with the help of counciling and supportive/loving parents) in late-highschool, nothing made me more happy.  I have never thought of or threatend suicde, nor have I attempted to "buy" friends....though, as is life, I did continue to disobey my folks at times...I am happy, confident and full of self worth and confidence these days.

Try some type of counciling / positive reinforcement / constructive discipline combo...and just let her know that you love her...and I'm sure things will improve. 

My parents were pretty cool about most anything.  I would try so hard to get attention, and those tantrums never worked!  They pretty much ingnored them and so then I started doing good things to get their attention, and boy did that work!!!  Even the small things like taking out the trash (which they had to remind me to do), my mom would do something with me.  Not like buy me things (although she did spoil me in that sense) she would come in my room and play barbies with me or we'd go watch a movie. Every Saturday, that was our day to go to the mall and then go see a movie.  If for some reason we couldn't, then we'd stay home and watch a movie while my dad went golfing.  It was the positive things that always stuck with me.  There were the times of course when I would disobey them, but they were very rare, because I had felt that I would have looked ungreatful and disrespectful. 

But like ElizabethK said, if I did something and got hurt, or in trouble at school, my parents were the same way...they'd just give me the look of "what did you expect!".  I think she probably is feeling very left out, as do the older kids, but maybe have her help you with the baby, or give her semi-important things to do and then reward her with some special time 

I'm not a parent, but that's what worked for my parents 

Eight is a hard year.  Both my older girls were huge pains at eight.  It's difficult for them, they're not little girls any more but they're so far from being teenagers.  They're allowed to do some stuff, but they want to do more.  It's natural for them to try to test the boundaries. 
 And that's what she's doing.  Testing herself and you.  And it sounds to me, like she's getting some mixed messages from you.  She's old enough to ride to school by herself, but not old enough to ride around the block?  That's a natural boundary to push. 
I honestly don't think the problem is how you can punish her more, but it's actually how can you punish her less.  You have grounded her for SIX weeks for riding the bike around the block-that just doesn't fit the crime.   You grounded her for four months over the money thing. Not only is it an excessive punishment, but you've set yourself up here-what more can you do?  What I mean is-what are you going to do a couple of years down the road when she really does something bad-smoking, sneaking out with boys, getting paralytic?  Ground her for life?  Lock her in her room? 
 No wonder she's rebelling.  And lying.  She probably thinks that if you find out these things you WILL send her off to live in Cumbria.  Which is probably her worst fear.  Believe me, even if you think you've never said that in front of her, if you've ever said it outloud she's heard you and she believes you.
I think you need to take a step back.  First of all, she should be allowed to have friends over.  If she's sneaking them in, maybe she's afraid to ask.  You might need to negotiate who/when/how many.  But then you'd both have a definate idea of what was going to happen.  Same thing for the bike riding-maybe negotate a different route that's a little further but safer.  Get your own bike out and go with her-that way you'll have a good idea of how safe she really is.
The money thing is a bit worrying to me-I think you need to look seriously at why she was doing it.  Is she being bullied?  Is she trying to make friends?  Does she really not understand the value of things?
And finally, while I agree with taking away things like the tv, computer and playstation, I'd really have to draw the line at a comfort toy.  That may seem like her last friend in the world and taking it away would just be mean.  She is just a little girl-eight is not very old at all.  What she wants and needs is to be kept safe and loved and be reassured that her little life is going to keep going along on an even keel. 

She has was grounded for more than the going around the block. It also included going into a strangers house and not telling me she was going out to play-she plays with the boy but I have never met the parents. I met the grandmaother but not mum and dad. She has gone out of the house on many occassions without permission.

And being grounded for 4 months isn't what it sounds like. We live in Wisconsin and it's still cold and rainy in March and April she wouldn't have been able to play outside anyway. And in May we had so much flooding in our area the back garden wasn't accessible.

She does nothing she is told to do. We each have certain things in the house to do, she choses which things she would do, like empty the diswasher and make her bed. Of which she won't do as she says she forgets. I have made chore sheets and she still "forgets", even though I remindered her 10 minutes before.

Now that school has started she is not doing her homework. She said she reads her story book for class, I than asked her a questions from the book and she has no idea what I am on about. She says it wasn't mentioned. I show her the area I take the question from and she says oh. I make her read the story and ask more questions and she answers them because she actuallys reads the story.

The thought of the punishment not fitting the crime...we have been dealing with the problems for so long that putting her in the cornor doesn't work. And a few days without playing doesn't either. She goes back to the same ways once she is done.

I do spend one afternoon a week just her and me, it's usually Saturday afternoons. We do the shopping and lunch. I spend every night helping her with her homework. She helps me make dinner as she loves to be around me. I let her be around me as much as she wants.
 
I have tried positive thinking and I don't yell at her at all. I don't believe yelling helps. I always take her to a quite area and talk with her. She never wants to tell me what is going on so I ask questions to have her tell me. It takes a while but if I persist she finally tells. But than we find out later what she said were lies.

I was called by the teacher as the girls in her class had items from the school store and they said Sam bought them for them.  She had me thinking that a girl in her class had stolen the money from her foster parents and she is the one who had the money at school. We later came to find out she had taken her birthday money and bought the items. She swears up and down it wasn't for friends to like her. She has a best friend and from what I can tell she is a good influence.

So I don't know. Going to a counciling is an option but I did it as a child as my dad died when I was 9, and I never got anything out of it. If she lies to her teachers won't she lie to him or her also? I'd be wasting my money.

Oh, I met the grandmother after she had gone in the house. I thought this might be important to know.

So I don't know. Going to a counciling is an option but I did it as a child as my dad died when I was 9, and I never got anything out of it. If she lies to her teachers won't she lie to him or her also? I'd be wasting my money.

The thing with counceling is that you have to do it for a while (1 or 2 appointments don't work), you have to be willing to work through things (sometimes 8 is too young to understand things like that, so it won't work), and you need support from everyone around you.  And, of course, it can get spendy.

I think that if she has a friend that you feel is a GOOD influence, and if you are close enough to the friends Mom, it may be worth it to chat with her Mom and see if she has any ideas. 

Also, maybe attempt at setting up new "rules" of engagement with your daughter and husband.  If she gets to HELP think up rules and punishment/discipline for not obiding by those rules, it may help her understand the way the game of "life" is played a bit more.  Let her see what it means to be an active part of the process.  And, of course, set a good example by following the applicable rules yourself...of course some rules are age-sensitive, but you get teh point.

Communication is also key, and it sounds as if you are really trying to communicate with your girl.  Don't loose hope!  With effort (and much frustration) she will come back around to be the little lady you hoped she would be.

I've seen many children come out of "bad" spots like this...even one that I thought certain was going to be a Lizzy Borden kid!  Good luck, and know that you can vent to me when ever you feel the need!!

 

Just thought I'd throw my two cents in as well. I didn't have a problem with this where my oldest girls were concerned, and we'll see about the younger ones later. I tried to explain why the rules were so important, ie. "I don't like stopping you from having fun, but, if you wear that much makeup, you look 4 years older and bit sleazy. Guys will hit on you, and you don't know when you might get one that won't take no for an answer. Please don't go out like that, I'll worry." I feel that with girls especially, they need to know that there are creeps out there. They need to know how dangerous reality is, that children disappear and are not found alive, or they get hit by cars and end up in wheelchairs for the rest of their lives. It might help to let her know how heartbroken you would be if something were to happen to her, especially if this is about jealousy issues.

Hope that offers another option, I know how difficult it is to work through behaviour problems, different things work with different children. Best of luck to you.

I've seen many children come out of "bad" spots like this...
 

Like ME!  (well, Frances didn't witness that, but... you know what I mean )
I think I'm so intrigued by this as this girl reminds me very very much of ME!  I put my parents through hell... bless you for being a parent, and trying to be a good one.
The homework thing SO got to me!  That's me!  I decided to not bother with homework from about 8-9 through college!  Somehow, I got through... hopefully, her current deceitfulness will develop into a strong, independent woman with a clever character (like I think I am now!).  Again, it was because I couldn't be bothered; I did my work at school, now you're telling me there's more I have to do at home?!?!  I don't think I had a clue just how much I was upsetting and hurting my parents by my behavior.

Please do keep us posted.

And being grounded for 4 months isn't what it sounds like. We live in Wisconsin and it's still cold and rainy in March and April she wouldn't have been able to play outside anyway. And in May we had so much flooding in our area the back garden wasn't accessible.

I guess what occurs to me is that the grounding therefore has no meaning.  Not only is it stretching on forever-thus possibly leading her to think 'why bother, I'm grounded till the end of time, anyway?' but it's meaningless.  She has to stay inside anyway.  Again, it's not fitting the crime. 

My perferred method of punishment is embarrassment.  If my child didn't come straight home from school, their punishment would be me meeting them after school to walk them home for the next week.  They went to the wrong house-I'd be knocking on the door. 

She does nothing she is told to do. We each have certain things in the house to do, she choses which things she would do, like empty the diswasher and make her bed. Of which she won't do as she says she forgets. I have made chore sheets and she still "forgets", even though I remindered her 10 minutes before.

I really can't help you on this one.  But if you figure it out, let me know because I've got a couple of teenagers who 'forget' to do everything they're asked. 

Now that school has started she is not doing her homework. She said she reads her story book for class, I than asked her a questions from the book and she has no idea what I am on about. She says it wasn't mentioned. I show her the area I take the question from and she says oh. I make her read the story and ask more questions and she answers them because she actuallys reads the story.

We've struggled with homework with my oldest for the last 11 years.  It was a constant struggle that could and did go on for hours so I know your pain.  Since Year 7 she has gone round to her Grandma's straight after school and does her homework in a quiet house. We think it's the dynamic of her and me that just doesn't work .  She doesn't come home to the computer and MTV til it's done.  It has worked for us.  Is there anyway you coud do something like this?  Does your school have a homework club?

This sounds like a really difficult situation.  Try to stay positive.  Try to praise her when she's good.  Try not to rise to the bait of paying attention to her when she's naughty. 
And maybe have a look at some information about depression in children.  That could be what you're dealing with here and you may find some strategies to get you through it. 

So I don't know. Going to a counciling is an option but I did it as a child as my dad died when I was 9, and I never got anything out of it. If she lies to her teachers won't she lie to him or her also? I'd be wasting my money.

Counselling wouldn't be a waste of money IF you can find someone who is extensively trained in working with kids and does things like play therapy and art therapy rather than talk therapy.... If this is the road that you decide to go down (and it doesn't sound like a bad idea to me), my suggestion would be to find a psychologist rather than a counsellor - the training is very different and you're more likely to find a psychologist who has done his/her Masters or PhD in child development instead of counselling.... Go to this site: http://www.apahelpcenter.org/ for guidance and referals (American Psych. Association)....

Incidentally, I'm doing my Master's in Child Development, so I've done an awful lot of checking around about being a child psychologist.... 

And good luck regardless of what you decide to do!!!

UPDATE

I have decided to take her to a child phychologist. Hubby and I have had it to the point of desperation. When I told her she would be seeing someone to talk about her feelings she wasn't upset or didin't like the idea. I explained her cousin goes. (he has ADHD or ADD) It's not until 20 October, but at least its going in a new direction. The doc is also a family counsler so he is trained in children and families, so I hope this will work. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks.