Self defense and right to bear arms in UK

Even if this topic felt a bit troll-y I found the responses interesting.

Generally, I feel safer in London than I did living in Philadelphia. I lived in North Philly where it was normal to see some guys walking around with pistols down the front of their jeans on the El.

I have known a few people who have been shot in drive-bys and fights. Even where I grew up in a rural area, our nearest neighbor was shot in a domestic dispute. Most of my UK friends have never touched a real gun before, let alone know anyone who was mugged at gunpoint or worse.

I never really wanted to have any sort of protection here- the only place I felt really unsafe was at my friends house in Brixton after he stopped his neighbor getting the sh*t kicked out of her for not giving up her purse. Like rynn_aka_rae, she had been initially attacked by a man on a push bike.

Most of the people I know who have been mugged in the UK have been assaulted during it and that is what I worry about most saftey-wise, but I don't see how carrying any sort of weapon is going to guarantee your safety in that situation, though it does have a chance of escalating the situation.

I think my university in the US was more supportive of people reporting rapes, especially date rape, than my uni in the UK, but did that result in more people reporting?  I would think so, but who knows.

Regarding the raps stats it probably has a lot to do with reporting as I would bet that there is more stigma attached to rape in the lowest reporting countries than in Australia & Canada.
It's totally off-topic but I do think it was interesting that my US Uni had rape hotline posters, had escorts to cars and off campus, handed out rape whistles to all incoming freshmen, and taught all freshmen how to respond to the rape whistles- but a lot of my UK friends said this didn't happen in their UK Uni's? Don't know if it is still like this in the UK, or maybe they just weren't paying attention then?

As my husband pointed out a lot of countries that reported lower rates of rape are historically Catholic, so I wonder if women just don't report it because of a "shame" issue.

Why do you want to carry mace? Have you ever been mugged or assaulted?

Yes! me and my friends were attacked by someone just last week, luckily there were 5 of us and one of him and a police van nearby but what if it had been 5 attackers and just me alone? back to the point, in an ideal world I shouldn't have to justify to you or the state what I use to defend myself, ok guns can cause a a lot of damage in the wrong hands but there is no sane reason why pepper spray is illegal, in France its legal and their society seems to function fine. Someone else mentioned rape alarms or something, but they're just useless and demeaning

Guns freak me out!  I felt so scared when we approached a guard near Kensington Palace for directions (heh).  He had some assault rifle, and I don't ever think I saw a guard of any sort (this guard, of course, was military).  I felt a bit shaken by it.  I guess I never felt that way seeing hunting rifles in gun racks, but seeing someone with one in his hands (and it being such a menacing thing) was something different.

No offense but thats where ignorance of firearms stems from is not really experiencing them first hand in a controlled environment and also just because some weapons look scarier than others like assault rifles doesn't make them any more dangerous than a hunting rifle.

ok guns can cause a a lot of damage in the wrong hands but there is no sane reason why pepper spray is illegal... Someone else mentioned rape alarms or something, but they're just useless and demeaning

Do you think that, in the wrong hands, pepper spray couldn't cause damage?  Sure, it's unlikely to kill someone (though it's not impossible), but it could certainly be used to incapacitate an intended victim (similarly to these guys running people down on their bikes).  Also, even if you're trying to use it to defend yourself, it's possible to accidentally spray yourself, or have it blow back on you.

What exactly do you find demeaning about a rape alarm?  I'm not all that familiar with them, but as I understand it, it's just something like a key fob with a button you can press that sets off a very loud alarm noise.  I'm not saying it's the ultimate in personal protection options, but it could certainly attract attention, and possibly make someone think twice.

Virginia:

Handgun licenses will be issued to green-card holders, not other aliens. See Code of Virginia Section 18.2-308.

Well I'll make do with a taser and some pepper spray then, the point I'm trying to make is that in this country the thing that annoys me the most is the principle of the government not allowing you to defend yourself, whether that be with a grenade launcher or a feather duster. I've been to America, I don't just like it for its lax weapon laws but the fact remains that England hasn't got it perfect. People still get mugged, assaulted and I'm sure at the very least a can of pepper spray could have saved them. Especially in some boroughs of London

Do you think that, in the wrong hands, pepper spray couldn't cause damage?  Sure, it's unlikely to kill someone (though it's not impossible), but it could certainly be used to incapacitate an intended victim (similarly to these guys running people down on their bikes).  Also, even if you're trying to use it to defend yourself, it's possible to accidentally spray yourself, or have it blow back on you.

I'm sorry but I find it hard to take the "pepper sprays are dangerous too" argument seriously when you have knives readily available and thugs eager to use them, knife to the face or mace to the face? I think I'd choose the mace

And me! Whether they're guns held by military guards or a rack of hunting rifles, I get freaked out.

Well, growing up in (and near) the aforementioned Vermont, I am sort of used to seeing gun racks, but usually only during deer season.  I can't imagine what an average Vermonter would say if they saw someone openly carrying a handgun or an assault rifle.  Or at least what they were thinking because I doubt with their Yankee stoicism they'd actually say anything.

It might be an unregulated state when it comes to firearms, but most people just use them for hunting.  Most areas people don't lock their doors (but this is changing a bit with meth/hillbilly heroin becoming more of an issue).  The reason they don't lock their doors isn't because people think the homeowners might be armed, it's because it's sparsely populated.  We're talking about a state whose state capital boasts a population of less than 10,000 people.  The biggest city is only "big" (less than 50000) because it's the home of a couple of universities, the "international" airport, and the state's biggest hospital (because of UVM).  

No offense but thats where ignorance of firearms stems from is not really experiencing them first hand in a controlled environment...

I disagree. I've shot rifles and handguns in controlled environments with my brother, who is a former US Marine and highly trained. I enjoyed shooting, felt very comfortable with it, mostly because I knew I was with someone I trusted and who knew what he was doing.

Guns still freak me out.

I told this to my brother, and he replied "Good, they should. That's the only way anyone actually respects what they are and what they can do." This from a mortar man who did 2 tours of Iraq, where I would suspect the presence of guns would freak anyone out.

I think that mostly comes down to the fact that it's not the guns themselves so much, but the people who potentially carry them. People suck, are ignorant, and irresponsible and I would trust very, very few people to actually own a gun for any reason other than because it's part of their job.

-----------

As for feelings of safety, well, I lived in a not so nice city in New Jersey for 4 years. I never had my guard down, never went anywhere at night without someone with me, and had people walk me to my car or at least talk to me on my phone while I would walk to my car. I carried pepper spray.

I also lived in a very lovely, safe part of Glasgow and I still felt this way. Since I couldn't have pepper spray, I walked with my keys in my hand. I guess it just stuck with me to always be on my guard. If I'm in a city, I just don't ever really feel truly safe. Guns, no guns, doesn't matter, really. It's people that scare me. 

I think that mostly comes down to the fact that it's not the guns themselves so much, but the people who potentially carry them. People suck, are ignorant, and irresponsible and I would trust very, very few people to actually own a gun for any reason other than because it's part of their job.

This.

Implying that those who use it for their job aren't likely to abuse their power, a badge and authority doesn't always make someone more trustworthy then without one.

Not to mention I'm not really a big fan of the police or the military, especially ones that intervene in other countries. Swiss defense force and other military's that just defend the country are fine

I'm sorry but I find it hard to take the "pepper sprays are dangerous too" argument seriously when you have knives readily available and thugs eager to use them, knife to the face or mace to the face? I think I'd choose the mace

I'm with Woardgrrl on this one, I actually carried pepper spray until I experienced the effects of it when some idiot set it off in my classroom. After that I was too freaked out to have it around.

I think the point is that people are likely to misuse guns, pepper spray, any kind of weapon because they are not adequately trained to use them, and when that happens it becomes more dangerous for everybody. (at least that is what I read into NoseOverTail post)

NoseOverTail- I walk down the street with my keys in my hand if I feel uncomfortable too. My mom taught me how to do that when I was much younger "Cut them across the forehead! No one can remember what they were about to do when they are bleeding into their eyes!"


Omphaloskepis- That's the difference between VT & PA! When I was working in East Bumf**k up in the Poconos, the local police officer told me that in the village of less than 500 adults there were almost 200 concealed weapon permits. (Who exactly was going to drive an hour up into the middle of nowhere to mug someone?!).

Implying that those who use it for their job aren't likely to abuse their power, a badge and authority doesn't always make someone more trustworthy then without one.

I wasn't implying that at all. I am not talking about power or authority, that's an entirely different matter. I am talking about safety and responsibility. Someone whose job requires the presence of a gun is someone who has been properly trained to use one. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but this is about likelihood.

Example. I was at an indoor handgun range a couple of weeks ago. It was busy. There were a couple of former police officers, random enthusiasts, and some 18/19 year old kids. These kids were holding the guns horizontally and just letting loose like they were in some gangster movie, laughing and horsing around. Needless to say, with the other people who were there, their fun didn't last long. Some of the former police officers walked over to them, lectured them, and got the owner of the place to make them leave.

Those kids shouldn't have guns. People like that should.not.have.guns. I felt infinitely better once they were gone and I was surrounded by people who were taking it seriously. But on the other hand, I know those kids probably just drove out to the woods to carry on with their fun. That scares me.

Not to mention I'm not really a big fan of the police or the military, especially ones that intervene in other countries. Swiss defense force and other military's that just defend the country are fine

The US has some of the worst police brutality culture in the developed world and a military that loves nothing better than intervening in other countries. Just fyi.

The US has some of the worst police brutality culture in the developed world and a military that loves nothing better than intervening in other countries. Just fyi.

In some parts yes, especially NYC, only reason NYC is safer than other big cities is because its like a police state with NYPD on every corner