Another unhelpful store clerk

But you shouldn't be afraid of a SCENE, as you put it, in the US any more than UKY posters should be afraid of talking to people in shops or restaurants in the UK. Because aren't we always telling people that these things can happen anywhere? In other words, a SCENE is not the norm in the US any more than a rude barista saying they don't know what a 'moe-kah' is in the UK.

Shouldn't I?

Rudeness is absolutely universal. SCENES seem more likely in the US in my experience and in addition I'm more sensitive to a SCENE in a country that's not my own, in the same way that Americans in the UK are more sensitive to rudeness here as they're outside their comfort zone, or the level of what they consider rudeness/length of wait is not the same as it would be to the waiter.

At the end of a day I truly believe that a waiter in the UK might be quietly rude to me, or make fun of me in a conversation but the likelihood of one shouting at me and chasing me across a restaurant for a small transgression is very much less likely in my experience.


Despite having eaten in a restaurant or cafe nearly every day of my adult life in the UK, I've never had a raised voice from a server (I have had, drinks slammed on tables, or just waited ages for my bill, or rolled eyes etc), but in a much smaller sample in the US, I have on more than one occasion for what I consider small issues, such as leaving a 10% tip on very small check, pronouncing the word blueberry incorrectly, taking a second to work out what drink I wanted, or daring to complain about shonky service etc had raised voice admonishing or quite intimidating arguing, which doesn't quite constitue A SCENE but *could* easily therefore I am much more on edge with servers in the US than in the UK.

Partly of course, this is because I  know where I'm going in the UK, and I'm less likely to be in tourist areas in the UK (although I do live in London and work on Tottenham court road, so maybe not), in addition I'm more culturally au fait with the UK I'm much less likely to make a small transgression and therefore less likely to get into a SCENE.

In terms of  a SCENE I've actually remembered another SCENE. I was at a very expensive steak house in NYC last year and the service was absolutely shocking, it included the bill being dropped on my HAND (in a tray) whilst I was still eating my dinner, I called him back to talk about the all around terrible service (in a nice way) and the server told me that he'd been busy as he had a table of "Those chinese people and you know what they're like" then rolled his eyes and went "What do you want Lady, you GOT YOUR FOOD?", he then just walked off, then the head waiter came over and was like "YOU PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING" really loudly at which point the entire restaurant is looking, my DH is getting seriously pissed the waiter is firing stuff at us loudly like "you got your FOOD, You just don't want to pay the BILL" as we try and outline the problems, and  with me attempting to make everyone calm down before the restaurant manager finally realises the entire restaurant is now looking, the people on the next table are chiming in and I just want to DIE.

At the end of the day, it's just how I feel. Rudeness, everywhere, SCENES, more likely in the US, for a number of factors, some of which are related to my status as a non native.

I've witnessed scenes on both sides of the pond, so I'm not sure if it's more likely to occur in the US. Of course the scenes you have witnessed sound stupid and shouldn't happen, but perhaps because you're out of your comfort zone when in the US you notice it more? I think I notice more displays of "rudeness" in the UK not because the UK is inherently more rude, but because I'm paying more attention in the UK than in the US. On the flip side, DF notices more displays of rudeness in the US when he's been there visiting me and I usually respond with a "Huh? What? I didn't notice."

I'm not saying you're wrong. You might very well be right. I just haven't noticed it myself.

I've witnessed scenes on both sides of the pond, so I'm not sure if it's more likely to occur in the US. Of course the scenes you have witnessed sound stupid and shouldn't happen, but perhaps because you're out of your comfort zone when in the US you notice it more? I think I notice more displays of "rudeness" in the UK not because the UK is inherently more rude, but because I'm paying more attention in the UK than in the US. On the flip side, DF notices more displays of rudeness in the US when he's been there visiting me and I usually respond with a "Huh? What? I didn't notice."

I'm not saying you're wrong. You might very well be right. I just haven't noticed it myself.

I said all of those things almost verbatim in my post. 

I'm more sensitive to a SCENE in a country that's not my own, in the same way that Americans in the UK are more sensitive to rudeness here as they're outside their comfort zone, or the level of what they consider rudeness/length of wait is not the same as it would be to the waiter.

I'm not scared of that in the UK, because I feel like British people are less likely to get in a SCENE, they'll just pretend it's not happening, this may just be my perception, but whenever something out of the ordinary has happened here, people just tend to look the other way, which is not a good thing really, but a good thing for me!

From my experience.. I agree with you Cheesebiscuit. As a matter of fact, I had this same conversation with an elderly Scottish lady as I was waiting for the bus last week.  We started off talking about how much she loved the States and taking cruises there. It progressed to how Americans and Brits differ from each other.  From my perspective, I have seen more passive-aggressive behaviour here than the in-your-face sort of confrontations that I would expect back in the States.  Here, I have only encountered one person who was confrontational and I suspect that she was mentally ill and unable to control her behaviour.

From my perspective, I have seen more passive-aggressive behaviour here than the in-your-face sort of confrontations that I would expect back in the States. 

I would agree with that.  For my part, I'd much rather deal with in-your-face.  Or, well...not 'in-your-face,' but certainly direct and honest.  The whole passive-aggressive thing drives me nuts, and it doesn't solve anything.

For example, when we go out to dinner somewhere, I usually order a steak.  And I'm usually disappointed, because (among other things) it's rarely cooked the way I ordered it.  In the U.S., I'd have absolutely no qualms about telling the server-- I'd be very nice about it, and wouldn't (usually) bother sending it back, but I'd let them know.  In fact, in many restaurants, they'll ask you if it's to your liking before they leave the table. 

But in the U.K., I just can't imagine making any comment other than 'yes, it's very nice, thank you.'  My MIL would be mortified.  My husband would agree with me, but I think he'd still be slightly uncomfortable.  It's just not done. 

The problem with this isn't that I didn't get to 'vent' about my meal, or get a discount, or anything like that.  I don't care about any of that.  The problem is that, in the absence of any sort of useful feedback, they'll keep getting it wrong!  This conspiracy of silence has doomed Britain to overcooked meat! 

I don't think there's any excuse for rudeness, ever.  But honest, constructive feedback is the only way things ever improve. 

Going back to the tip thing, my mom once ate at a [supposedly] posh restaurant in the US.  She said the food was only mediocre, but the service was utterly dreadful - and my mom is usually a generous person who gives everyone the benefit of the doubt.  She tipped somewhere between 10% and 15% (she usually tips 20%) and as she was walking to her car in the car park, the waiter ran out with the bill and pointed out he thought he was under-tipped.  My mom asked him what he's usually tipped and he said, "You should be tipping at least 25%."

Needless to say, she was not impressed, and didn't give him a penny more.

Going back to the tip thing, my mom once ate at a [supposedly] posh restaurant in the US.  She said the food was only mediocre, but the service was utterly dreadful - and my mom is usually a generous person who gives everyone the benefit of the doubt.  She tipped somewhere between 10% and 15% (she usually tips 20%) and as she was walking to her car in the car park, the waiter ran out with the bill and pointed out he thought he was under-tipped.  My mom asked him what he's usually tipped and he said, "You should be tipping at least 25%."

Needless to say, she was not impressed, and didn't give him a penny more.

If i happened to be a restaurant owner or manager, I think I would instantly fire any employee who did this.  Flat out, on the spot.  That is so incredibly obnoxious and unprofessional.  Even if a waiter thinks its just a genuine oversight rather ignorance or an intended slight -- just NOOOOOOO.

I don't get tipping when it's bad service.  Isn't that just reinforcing their shitty behaviour?

And if a manager shouted at me that servers rely on tips I think i'd be inclined to suggest they should pay their staff more. 

I said all of those things almost verbatim in my post.  

...And then went on to say that SCENES are more likely to occur in the US than in the UK despite you feeling more sensitive to them out of your comfort zone. I don't think SCENES occur more in one place than the other. I think we notice them more out of our comfort zones.  

I think scenes are more noticeable  here to me because when people go off they go off!

Not so much waiters, but we went out to eat a few weeks ago and a man berated a waiter and the owner for 15 minutes about how he felt the wine information on the wine list was incorrect.  It was mortifying.  The guy was obviously a jerk though from the way he was acting to his date.

I think scenes are more noticeable  here to me because when people go off they go off!

This!! 

I'm like Cheesebiscuit, I absolutely HATE any sort of controversial situations especially if its with people I don't know. I'm much better with dealing with controversy now, but that's only been within the last couple years! It seriously used to put me in a massive panic attack and I can't think straight and feel sick to my stomach! Though even now when I'm in situations I don't feel comfortable in, I don't say anything.

I used to tell people, if I can get moody or mouthy with you, seriously take it as a compliment (as weird as that sounds!) because it means I'm COMFORTABLE with you! It means I TRUST you! Otherwise, I would shut up and put up with it. I think that's one of the same reasons I hated doing sales (Business to Business), but it did help make me a stronger person and stand up for myself...But never to the point of arguing and screaming...I'm pretty diplomatic with it. (and pick and choose my battles)

I've seen it happen on both ends of the pond though but mostly agree that you will notice it substantially more when you are out of your comfort zone and that can be anywhere! 

So, while I really appreciate people posting, I thought this forum was for Americans living in the UK, rather than for UK nationals to rag on how rude Americans are. I don't really think tit-for-tat arguments are helpful and posts as such really co-opted my original post wanting to understand how that experience in the hardware store went so wrong.

Is there indeed a forum where only Americans can post?

Is there indeed a forum where only Americans can post?

The vast majority of posts on this thread are from Americans.  The little flag you see under some user names indicates where that person lives, not where they're from.

Even as an American in the UK I can agree with what even British people may think...Yes some US or UK people may agree and some may not - this is a forum.

It happens anywhere ;-)