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Topic: Is this disrespectful?  (Read 2037 times)

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Is this disrespectful?
« on: June 24, 2012, 06:33:40 PM »
DH and I will be going to see the Olympic Torch pass through our neighborhood. He got his English flag out, and told me to get my American flag and hat out. When I told my Mom, she said, "I think people may take that as disrespectful."  Really?  So I asked a few people (both English and American), and got several interesting responses.

I never thought waving my American flag would be seen as rude at an event that celebrates worldwide athleticism.  When I said that to someone, they said that waving the American flag at the actual GAMES would be appropriate, but waving it as the torch passes through an English town was inappropriate.

What do you think? 
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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2012, 06:43:21 PM »
Disrespectful and inappropriate seem like a strong words but I guess it depends on your intention. I agree that having your flag at the games would not be out of place, but I'm not sure of why you would have it during the torch run.

Are you displaying it to support your team? Are you displaying it to identify yourself as an american? Is it all in good fun? In the end, if it means something to you, I wouldn't worry too much about what other people think.
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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2012, 06:47:48 PM »
I think it is fine-- I asked English Hubby and he says that in his opinion it should be fine, but some people might give some playful boos etc....he also said others might responded bigger.
He also says that in his opinion as soon as they had Will.I.AM carry the torch, it was no longer a British Event. He also added that it could be seen as disrespectful taking an English flag if you want to really look at it-- there is no English team in the Olympics only a British Team, so it should be the Union Jack.....sorry you asked? :)


Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2012, 06:56:33 PM »
From the people I've known that have seen it go by, there's a very high amount of national pride, lots of union jacks, and seems a very UK centric celebration, even more so than the jubilee, or maybe because there's a lot of post jubilee good feeling.

If you feel comfortable waving your American flag,you should, but just be aware there's it has been pretty "pride of Britain" centric so far and that people reacted fairly badly to Will.i.am carrying the torch, as they felt it was inappropriate that he was carrying it as an American, and that only British heroes, nurses, doctors, cancer sufferers, athletes etc should be carrying the torch.

I guess it's the olympic torch running through the UK on the way to the London 2012 games at a time where British fever seems to be running fairly high. So is it disrespectful, no I don't think so, is it inappropriate, no I don't think so...is the context slightly off? Maybe. I don't know if that would stop me doing it though.

I don't know if you've been into central London recently but it's like something out of a dystopian movie, there's flags EVERYWHERE. Taking an English flag is disrespectful, yes. It's team GB!!! :) 


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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2012, 07:06:49 PM »
If the Olympic torch was passing through my town and I saw someone with a flag from another country, it wouldn't bother me. As you said, it's a worldwide event. While the UK is hosting it, I don't see why the passing of the torch should be seen as purely a symbol of UK pride.

Having said that, I can see the other side of things (though I disagree) and I probably wouldn't wave the American flag myself because I would feel out of place because I would probably be the only one doing it. Also, I would worry about offending the more "sensitive" folk. Some people can be precious about those sorts of things. It bothers me in the US when people aren't tolerant of other cultures beyond America as well.

However, during the World Cup, I see many homes flying the flag of not only America, but of other countries as well. Also, there is an apartment complex just up the road from here that is flying both the English flag and the Portuguese flag for Euro 2012.

Sorry, I know that's not really a definitive answer. I'll ask my DF (UK Citizen) what he thinks in will report back to you.


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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2012, 07:24:43 PM »
Hmmmm........ now I'm really unsure.  I guess I didn't think that much about it before.

Do you know when you see international events on TV, and the presenter might say, "There's someone from Italy...........there's the Canadian flag........there's a group from Greece....", etc. I just thought the Olympics was one of the most celebrated and televised international events, and me waving a flag from another country just meant I was from another country (and probably most would think I was just visiting, anyway).

I had no idea that Will.I.Am was carrying a torch here!  Now that, I definitely think is inappropriate!

Good point about the English/British flag issue as well. Hubby always identifies himself as English, so I guess that's why he chose an English flag.  He said, "When someone asks you where you are from, you don't say, "North America", you say you're from the United States.  So I say I am from England, not Great Britain."

Anyway, interested in seeing more answers. Thanks, everyone!
British Citizenship approval: May 2016
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**************************************************************
Well, she was an American girl, raised on promises.
She couldn't help thinking that there was a little more to life, somewhere else.
After all it was a great big world, with lots of places to run to.
And if she had to die trying she had one little promise she was gonna keep.

Comprehensive CV/Résumé Preparation
Writing, Proofreading & Editing Services
www.thewordsmithdesk.co.uk


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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2012, 07:41:10 PM »



Good point about the English/British flag issue as well. Hubby always identifies himself as English, so I guess that's why he chose an English flag.  He said, "When someone asks you where you are from, you don't say, "North America", you say you're from the United States.  So I say I am from England, not Great Britain."

Anyway, interested in seeing more answers. Thanks, everyone!
My DH is the same, he is always English-- but when it comes to the Olympics it is Team GB.


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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2012, 07:50:32 PM »
Will.i.am took the torch through Taunton, where my BIL and SIL live, and we were there visiting them the next day.  To say that people (ones we talked to) were opposed to him having carried it would be an understatement.  Some were REALLY upset.  My colleagues, who are usually very mild-mannered, were also vocal on the subject.  I agree with those who have pointed out that it's a very British-centric sort of thing.  Look at it from another perspective as well:  Imagine that the Olympics were in the US and there were people at the torch parade waving flags from other countries.  Lots of Americans would be offended by that.  TBH, I wouldn't bring an American flag, though if you feel comfortable doing it and you think it won't cause a fuss in your neighbourhood, then I say go for it. 
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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2012, 07:59:11 PM »
I always think of the Torch Relay as honoring the hosting country.  The whole point of the tradition is to pass over the sacred flame from Athens to the hosting country.  And again the whole point of it running through the hosting country is to honor that country/its heros.  It does feel raining on the UKs parade by celebrating another country during the torch relay.  I do think it runs along the same lines as why it was tacky that Will.I.Am carried the torch.  That said, if you did wave the US flag, I am not going to accost you for it but I will think it is a shame that you couldn't take the opportunity to celebrate the UK instead.  And on the other hand, if you hadn't of asked, I probably would not have given it this much thought!

Now the actual Olympic games is totally different (as is the World Cup or the Euros) and is about celebrating the different nations so having the different flags then is totally appropriate IMO.  

I am also surprised by your husband's use of the England flag in this instance.  Again, it is my experience that when the event is UK or GB focused, you go for the Union flag.  If it is an event that splits up the countries, then you wave England/Scotland, etc.  At least one reason for this is just respect for the smaller countries.  On many occassions, even when you are Team GB or UK, it tends to be a lot of English people and NIreland/Wales/Scotland is under-represented or left out entirely.  If you are then waving the English flag, it truly ignores the smaller countries and comes off as a bit egocentric.  However, my Scottish husband also adds that while it is a bit tacky, it happens and people need to move on.  
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 08:01:27 PM by Sara Smile »


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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2012, 08:10:14 PM »
Look at it from another perspective as well:  Imagine that the Olympics were in the US and there were people at the torch parade waving flags from other countries.  Lots of Americans would be offended by that.

I know I wouldn't be offended.  I'd probably go up to them and ask where they were from and joke good naturedly with them that we were going to kick their butts.  My great-grandparents were from Italy and Ireland, and at my parents place at the beach, we have  both flags flying, plus an American flag.  But I can see your point.

Most of my neighbors know I'm American, as do a lot of people in town. I talk to everybody. Our next door neighbors put a small American flag in their window the day I arrived here permanently.  (How sweet is THAT?) A local restaurant owner allowed my husband to hang USA flag bunting around his restaurant when they had my "Welcome" party. The town shopkeepers joke with me, like the butcher who insists I want "haaaaamburger" whenever I go there, and the hairdresser that calls me "Bangs".  

But despite this acceptance, I guess I should keep my flag home, especially in light of the Will.I.am controversy.  I certainly don't want to offend anyone or put a damper on anyone's spirits at the parade.  So that is why I asked and am grateful for the responses. I am cool with it. If I offended even one person there, I'd feel badly.
British Citizenship approval: May 2016
Ceremony: July 2016
**************************************************************
Well, she was an American girl, raised on promises.
She couldn't help thinking that there was a little more to life, somewhere else.
After all it was a great big world, with lots of places to run to.
And if she had to die trying she had one little promise she was gonna keep.

Comprehensive CV/Résumé Preparation
Writing, Proofreading & Editing Services
www.thewordsmithdesk.co.uk


Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 08:42:42 PM »
My DH is the same, he is always English-- but when it comes to the Olympics it is Team GB.

Yup me too. Also I think the Union Jack is all kinds of beautiful.




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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 09:40:46 PM »
If I were in the UK and was able to see the torch relay, I'd definitely support Team GB.  I think there's a difference between the torch relay and the actual Olympic games.  You're meant to support your team during the games, but the torch relay is celebrating the UK and the honor of it being selected to host the games. 


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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 09:53:46 AM »
He also added that it could be seen as disrespectful taking an English flag if you want to really look at it-- there is no English team in the Olympics only a British Team, so it should be the Union Jack.....sorry you asked? :)

This was my first thought reading your post.  IMO, the St. George's Cross is innapropriate at an event celebrating all of Great Britain.


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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 01:10:14 PM »
Good point about the English/British flag issue as well. Hubby always identifies himself as English, so I guess that's why he chose an English flag.  He said, "When someone asks you where you are from, you don't say, "North America", you say you're from the United States.  So I say I am from England, not Great Britain."

That's sophistry if ever I heard it. US and Canada are not part of a greater political whole. North America is a land mass, not a country.  If I insisted on being Californian rather than whatever term you prefer for US Citizen then that would be equivalent to his insistence that he's English rather than British.  The equivalent to saying you're from the US rather than North America would be his being from the UK, not Europe.

Obviously he's entitled to identify himself however he wants, but to quote Joss Whedon, his logic doesn't resemble our Earth logic.


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Re: Is this disrespectful?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 11:35:01 AM »
How did you go on Fallgal? We are in Barnsley but missed the torch parade as we both work in Halifax (it went through Halifax on Sunday when we were off so at home in Barnsley!)
We were in town though yesterday evening to meet with my niece who was in town for a conference today.
After she'd left to meet up with colleagues, it seemed to be one acquaintance (with their friends) after another which kept us in the pub a few hours! Which got to some interesting conversations asking DW why she was in Barnsley etc. And everyone thought it was great she was here, asked if she'd come into town for the torch relay, and apart from some good natured jibes from a guy we know, no body took issue.
I don't see how it would have been seen inappropriate to wave a US flag. I don't think DW would have done that though - she loved all the Unions flags during the jubilee, as we walked into town last night she commented on how nice the Union flag looked on the Town Hall, and the flags up in town.
She says it sort of reminds her of back home on July 4th etc, just a pride in displaying the flag, and she takes almost as much pride in seeing the British flag in Britain as the American flag in the US.
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