Three years on....thoughts

My family moved from Illinois to the UK in early September 2009. I'm a dual citizen born and raised in the UK, my wife is a US citizen, and my kids (now aged 8 and 5) are dual through me, both born in the US.

The reasons for the move were various -- we were starting to feel like we needed a bit of an adventure (East Central IL is delightful in many ways, but no-one would call it exciting) and after ten years living in the States I felt a need to spend some time in the UK to recharge my Britishness a bit. Neither of us was especially happy in our jobs in the US, and we also wanted our kids to grow up with more of an international perspective.

The first few months after we got here were very fraught and confusing and quite lonely. We had gone from a situation where we were surrounded by lots of really good friends (both us and the kids) to a situation where we knew no-one and nobody seemed much like they wanted to know us. For three months we lived in a small town in Surrey, borrowing a house owned by my aunt as we fired out job applications to see where we would end up. Although my wife and I were both very ‘homesick’ for the US, miraculously the kids were both very game to try this new life, which made things easier.

Just when we were beginning to despair of ever finding our place here, my wife got a job down on the S. coast and so we finally had a direction, a place to be. I got a job in Brighton shortly afterwards, and things gradually began to look up. The South Downs and S coast are really lovely, and we enjoyed exploring them together. We popped over to Paris for a holiday, we took little trips up to London, we visited my parents and they visited us, etc etc.

We now live in Brighton, which is a very cool place, and we’ve both found stuff to enjoy here. The kids have a lovely little school, and have made lots of friends (albeit in that English way where you get on and enjoy one another’s company but don’t ever really move up to that Next Level).

We haven’t been back to the US since we got here, but that is about to change – in a couple of weeks we fly out to the States for a family wedding, and a week of exploring upstate NY. I am really excited for the trip, and very curious to see how the US looks after so much time away (and to see how the UK feels from a distance, by comparison).

Just lately I have started to have a desire to move back to the US. I am glad we stuck it out for the three years here rather than panicking and returning before we had a chance to try it properly, and I definitely don’t regret having come over (which is a real change from how I felt even just a year ago). Even though many things made me glad I’m not in the US (the freak weather and droughts, the nutty healthcare situation, the occasional mass shooting, the highly polarised and dysfunctional political system) I do think I would/could be happier there. Part of my reasoning is financial – my wife and I are both earning about as much as we could expect to earn here, and yet the total amount in our bank account is almost exactly what it was three years ago. We aren’t losing money here, but we are working flat out and just breaking even as we pinch pennies and languish in our poky little two bedroom flat. It is very frustrating for both of us. I also just miss the general feeling of being there (especially the laid back feeling of life in a college town) – safe, spacious, affordable, friendly, etc. I’m not saying the UK is dangerous or unfriendly exactly, but life here does feel overall far more like a rain-soaked, litter-strewn struggle to stay afloat.

But, I don’t know, my wife and I will both be taking careful notes on our upcoming trip – to check in with how we are feeling, what we are seeing, and how it affects our long-term plans. We would hate to make another move unless we really think it is the best thing in the long term.

Sorry for the long post -- just wanted to share some thoughts.

I remember your struggles.

I'm glad to hear that you are happy you stuck it out.  I know what you mean about just keeping above water.

My husband earns good money and gets a raise every year and every year house prices in our area go up by about the same amount.  This is really the area to be for his job (outside of London where he doesn't want to move).  A just opened new build scheme has 2 bedroom terraced houses for 350,000.   
Not that I want a new build, but then all the older houses in the area go up to just under those prices. 

Which is why in October we are going to a job fair in London for Canada and New Zealand.   

I've never been materialistic or money-hungry at all, but for some reason the affordability thing is really getting to me. Some friends in the US have recently bought a new house, and they sent me the link to its Realtor.com page -- it's this gorgeous 4-bedroom house with a massive yard in a really lovely area near fantastic schools and they paid just under $200,000 for it -- whenever I look at property in Brighton, I am facing the prospect of taking out a whacking great mortgage just so I can pay twice that much to live in a dingy 2-bedroom flat with no garden or parking. I know I could look further afield, but I really don't relish the prospct of having a long commute to work. It's that quality of life thing, combined with anxiety about the fact that my wife and I are in no way saving for retirement under these conditions. When I contemplate the fantasy life I'd like to have, it involves working a lot less and enjoying life a lot more, and I'm not sure how we could make that work here. (I know people do, and I'm sure we could find a nice place in Yorkshire, say...)

Where abouts in New York are you visiting? I grew up in a town called Oneonta which is a college town, and fairly laid back. I'm sure I'm looking at it through rose-tinted glasses but if you're nearby it may be worth a stop for you and your family. The soccer hall of fame is there, and the baseball hall is about 30 minutes away in Cooperstown. Ahh, upstate New York in the fall--I am a bit jealous now actually!

My brother's getting married in a rural spot not far from Buffalo. We're flying to Toronto, stopping off at Great Wolf Lodge for a few days (yay!) and then doing a quick trip down to Ithaca before we head up to the wedding, then back here.

It's really just about the quality of life you want to have for yourself and your kids isn't it? I think it's good that you guys are always evaluating those things for your family! It's very healthy!

What we have to be careful of is the "do I want this because I think that the grass might be greener on the other side" or is it that it may be a necessity to improve the quality of life for your family? (I've really had to learn this lesson the hard way!)

I will confess, I am the queen of moving (21 times in 30 years! YIKES!!) and parts of it was because of my dad being in the Airforce, parts of it was for things like going to University, but then parts of it was because I thought the grass was greener...In some cases it was, in others, not so much!

Basically, it's about pro's and con's and really looking at why you moved away and aligning it with why you want to move back and what you are looking for in life (whether it be a better balance of work/life for you and your wife, things that you feel will enrich the lives of your kids, etc.) You did this already when you moved here, but sometimes it's just nice to be reminded you know? I also think that there are seasons and what works for 3 years may not be the case anymore! It depends on where you guys are at in life and what your goals are, etc.

In my case, sometimes I think about how much I would love to move back, but then I realized how much I hated my situation there work-wise and realize, I would be making lots of money, but I would also be taking half a dozen different prescriptions to help with my depression, anxiety, and slew of other health issues stress can bring on (What I was dealing with before moving here). I had no quality of life back at home, I was always too tired, stressed and depressed! Here I don't have the opposite problem, not a lot of money, but my quality of life is so much better! I would love to someday move back to the US, but only if I know I could move back and be in a position of having a better quality life outside the work. (Better work/life balance I guess) It would have to align itself with the goals, intentions, growth expectancies, etc.

Only you know what you and your family need, and if you strongly feel that you have found that by moving back it will improve you and your families quality of life, needs, expectancies, etc. then yes! But if it's just because you miss it and you think it might be greener, you might need to go back and do your lists again, remember what moved you here in the first place and re-evaluate whether going back continues to nurture that beginning goal or not.

Sorry for the long rant, I hope that makes sense...Sometimes I'm not the greatest with words! I hope you find your guidance your looking for!        

I've never been materialistic or money-hungry at all, but for some reason the affordability thing is really getting to me. Some friends in the US have recently bought a new house, and they sent me the link to its Realtor.com page -- it's this gorgeous 4-bedroom house with a massive yard in a really lovely area near fantastic schools and they paid just under $200,000 for it -- whenever I look at property in Brighton, I am facing the prospect of taking out a whacking great mortgage just so I can pay twice that much to live in a dingy 2-bedroom flat with no garden or parking. I know I could look further afield, but I really don't relish the prospct of having a long commute to work. It's that quality of life thing, combined with anxiety about the fact that my wife and I are in no way saving for retirement under these conditions. When I contemplate the fantasy life I'd like to have, it involves working a lot less and enjoying life a lot more, and I'm not sure how we could make that work here. (I know people do, and I'm sure we could find a nice place in Yorkshire, say...)

Aww! Sometimes I feel this way too!! That's when I have to remind myself why I moved! LOL! Seriously, though, miss the space! 

I'm glad things are better than when you first arrived and that you've settled in. I second what Amberelle said, with a couple of extra thoughts. Your friends may have bought a big house for $200,000, but almost certainly their property tax, home insurance, water, sewage and waste removal bills are higher than yours because of the nature of the American system. You might make more money in the US, but if one of you were to get seriously ill, you could end up completely wiped out financially, and that system will only get worse if a Republican gets back into office in November. You also would have much less time with which to spend that extra money, because even if you're pretty lucky, you'll only get 2 weeks of holiday time a year. As for this side, Brighton is not exactly the cheapest place in the country, so for the same money you're struggling on there, you might find yourself living the high life elsewhere. As with a lot of things, it doesn't so much come down to US/UK, but where exactly you're living in each place.
Whatever you decide to do, make sure you're wife gets her UK citizenship as soon as she can, and definitely before you leave should you choose to do so. That way you'll never have to worry about visas if you decide to move back in the future. The new spouse visa rules have made it very difficult, especially for UK citizens moving back with their spouses, and you don't want to have to deal with that!

D_A_D, I'm glad you've posted again to tell us how you're getting on.  I know several folks on UKY took at least 3 years to fully feel settled and it sounds like you're getting there.

I will be interested in seeing how your trip back to the US goes.  I find myself struggling a bit when I go back (and I go back roughly every 6-8 months, thanks to work -and some lucky breaks to see the family)  - so I will be interested in hearing your perceptions of the US now, as well as that of your kids and wife.  You may find that things are different and don't feel the same.  I often find things too 'in your face' and the 10000000000 of tv adverts do my head in and, certainly where my parents live, there's a real lack of organic and "whole" foods available in the normal supermarkets - (luckily there are good farm shops around though)  and I can certainly find so many more 'world foods' available here.  But we each have our own things that make us happy/sad with life.   

Certainly though, if it makes you long for the US even more, than I think you know where your heart is.  You have to listen to your heart, as well as all the practical things.  We've all got different reasons in life for the choices we make, so as always, you need to make the best decisions for you and your family.

I can relate though on the housing. I have been desperately wanting a piece of land to homestead- raise chickens and a few animals.  My cousin and his girlfriend just bought an amazing 3 bedroom farmhouse, 4 acres of land, barn and outbuildings, fruits and veg and even chickens included- for $175,000 in the town next to my parents. So that sometimes pulls me, because I can't come even close to that here.


Good on you though for following a dream.  You'll never regret trying something and 'failing' (not saying that in this case would be a failure!!!)- than not trying at all         

DrSuper -- Your points are all valid ones, and I certainly know that I live in one of the more expensive parts of the country! I always hate it when people generalise and say 'the US is this way, while the UK is that way' when they are clearly not comparing like with like. The healthcare and vacation time question is a significant one. When our kids were born, my wife took a few weeks off and then went straight back to work, while here in the UK people routinely leave their piosts for 9 months or more and it's all totally standard practice.

Oh, and we're absolutely going to do the citizenship thing. Now that we've been here for 3 years and my wife has her ILR, we need to get that situationj squared away before we make any kind of decision. The trip next month will be a good chance to have a little wander around on the other side of the fence and see if the grass is indeed greener there...

My friends just put a bid in on a house last night, so I totally understand.

On the other hand, my husband works from 9:30-7:30 everyday and sometimes works on the weekends and gets no extra compensation and no extra time off.  He makes good money for the UK, but when I look at what his friends are making in the same industry in the US and Canada it  makes me want to cry and they don't work more hours than he does.

But until the healthcare situation shakes out we are leaning towards Canada.  That and the fact that if he gets a job it will be easier to go there because we have no one to co-sponsor us to move to the US.

As for annual leave, well that depends on the company.

FWIW I've been offered several jobs in the US in the last year, I was looking seriously just before xmas and get head hunted consistently because I am senior in a fairly specialised job role and the holiday allowance was all around 20 days. Two companies had a totally flexible time off system where you could take off as much time as you felt you needed for whatever reason. So I think it depends on your industry.

Health Care etc was covered as were moving expenses and the salary was significantly higher. I've not moved because the boy loves London, because I feel like I've not rinsed London for all it's worth, and other cities aren't as cool/fun/large/diverse as London (there are exceptions of course), the pace of life in the US is weird to me, I don't like the keeping up with the Joneses thing which I feel (personal opinion) is more prevalent there, the TV drives me insane, I couldn't have it on at all during my recent trip, food culture isn't what it is in the UK (diversity) except in a few cities, there's only a couple of cities where the boy and I could both work, I find the levels of homelessness really disconcerting in a lot of the cities I looked at (very upsetting, Seattle, San Francisico, LA etc), people in certain cities are too friendly (Austin), I don't want to be too close to my in laws (they are lovely but I like being independent).
I feel like we have an amazing life in London, we live in Soho, we have disposable income, yes we could have more in the US, but how much freaking more do we need?! 

Some good points there as well, although sadly living in London with kids is just...well....not possible. (At least, not for us.)

I never felt much of a 'keeping up with the Joneses' vibe in the US, although of course it totally depends on where you are. And I agree on the TV thing, although we don't watch much TV in either country. The food culture thing is a biggie -- I do love the food in the UK, which gets an unfairly bad press. Borough Market in London is one of my favourite places in the world, and I would have to think very carefully before any move that took me too far away from it. Then again, our town in the US had an amazing (and affordable -- once again) farmer's market.

It's funny what you said about the people being TOO friendly in Austin. Whenever my mum visited us in the US she said she always felt like everyone talked to her as if she was a child. I think she particularly meant clerks in stores etc., the whole "OK buh-bye now, and you have a GREAT day!" thing.

  That and the fact that if he gets a job it will be easier to go there because we have no one to co-sponsor us to move to the US.
 

Bookgrl, I can't remember your exact circumstances, but if your husband has lived in the States before he may qualify for the I-864W.
We have been toying with the idea of moving back to the States for a while now and if we don't have the funds in the bank account we will use the I-864W.  Like you we do not have anyone to co-sponsor us and to be honest would feel uncomfortable asking anyone.  
D_A_D , since moving here in 2005 I have realized that I am quite materialistic-at least when it comes to housing.  I could care less about clothes, shoes, etc...but I miss our house that we had in the States.  We were finally able to buy a house  in 2010 and I don't like to think what that money would have bought us in the States.

If we do go back I will review the health care that my husband's company will provide and ensure that it will meet our needs.  Vacation days, like other items, can be negotiated.  

Sadly not.  He probably could get a visa to get a job in the US, but then I am not sure if he would be able to switch to being a spouse once we arrived or if he would have to be on his work visa for x amount of time and of course it would be way more expensive.

Canada would be an adventure though, as would New Zealand.  This is the longest I have lived anywhere since graduating Uni in '98.  I haven't lived anywhere longer than 18 months in about 10 years and I have been here for 6 now.