Three years on....thoughts

Totally! Some things are clearly better in general in one place for the majority. 

And it really does depend on where you live here and there.

bookgrl - interesting insights.  As Dennis says, all viewpoints are welcome to the table for discussion.

As I've gotten older, my perspective of what matters to me has changed. 

I used to want a really big house.  Now I don't.  We actually moved from a large home to the smaller one we own now.  If I had it my way, I'd sell off more of our crap and move to an even smaller one.  But - my son is also grown and I have no need for a large place.   DAD obviously still needs a place big enough to raise a family in.  Myself - a small British house would suit me fine.

I also used to live in an rural area and was dependent on my car.  We moved to the city because we wanted to be closer to conveniences.  Because it's America and practically nowhere has good public transport, we still depend on the car.  But we use less gasoline and travel to work is easier.  If a person wants to live rurally in any country, they'll need a car.  I for one am tired of the hassles of car ownership.  On the other hand, I realize public transport isn't a "breeze" nor is it "free".  Swings and roundabouts on this one, I suppose, at least from the perspective of which you prefer. 

When I was younger, I didn't mind terribly those times I was without health cover due to job change.  I was healthier then after all.  My ex husband was out of work once for two years and I approached the welfare office about a medical card for our toddler.  Nope, you don't qualify because you haven't wiped out your assets and you still own a home.  Oh well.  I think Americans have developed by necessity a British "keep calm and carry on" attitude when they are in those situations.  I know I did.  I've had other points in my life wherein I was without insurance.  In fact, I've got none now and haven't for three years.  We've got cover for my husband and thank God for that as he was hospitalized in April. 

Hope I don't get sick.

Well that was an interesting trip.

We were there for a week, and three of those days were spent in Canada. We flew into Toronto, spent two nights there, then one more night at the Great Wolf Lodge waterpark hotel at Niagara Falls before crossing into the US. We rented a cabin in the woods of Western PA for two nights, and then spent a few more nights near Lake Chautauqua NY for a family wedding.

To get the main news out of the way, I unsurprisingly had mixed feelings about being there. The pluses were obvious – super-nice upbeat and cheerful people, amazing scenery, affordable gasoline, beautiful weather, delicious food, etc. I was surprised by how much I liked Toronto (great, so now there are THREE countries in competition here…) and by the gorgeous natural splendour of the Pennsylvania forests.

So, yeah, the entire trip was coloured with a rosy late-summer glow, and we visited some really beautiful places and reconnected with a lot of family members I hadn’t seen for a long time. Oh, and did oodles and oodles of laundry, just because we could! And saw loads of chipmunks.

And yet…there was also this other thing, a kind of nagging emptiness, a sense of the place being TOO big, the distances between things TOO great, the civilisation somehow synthetically imposed on the landscape rather than emerging organically from within it. We drove and we drove and we drove, and only made a tiny dent in the country as a whole. We passed billboards for Personal Injury Lawyers (‘Car accident? Call 888-8888’) We passed ads for glossy local morning news teams and cardiology departments, hard to distinguish from one another. We passed lots of ‘America vs. Obama 2012’ yard signs, displayed by people who don’t understand how elections work. We visited a Whole Foods, and although it was this mesmerising temple of wholesome consumerism, I started to get this sort of creeping panic, like the guy in the final scene of The Hurt Locker, just frozen in the cereal aisle. We passed field after field of drought-stricken corn crops, withering and brown in the sun. We passed through crumbling small towns, houses boarded up, cars up on blocks, even the WalMart gone out of business. We sat up one night and surfed every channel on the TV trying to find something worth watching. Commercial, commercial, infomercial, QVC, shouty right-wing news guy, shouty left-wing news guy, commercial, etc.

Then there was the return to the UK – I was curious to gauge my feelings upon returning. Although things do look a little drab and litter-strewn, and although the people look a little less tanned and wholesome and outdoorsy, I was quite surprised by how it felt like a bit of a homecoming. We collapsed in our flat, unpacked a bit, and then my son wanted to walk down to the park to see if his school friends were there. Within a few minutes we had bumped into several people we knew, and I’d been waved at by a couple of other people passing in cars or on bikes. In general things felt sort of groovy, and I can’t explain exactly but there is this deep-rootedness, a sense of the place being well established, that emenates from the old buildings – a feeling that had been lacking in the States.

So, I don’t know, I suppose for now my head is sort of in this place where I am glad to be where I am, but also glad to be able to visit places like the ones I saw last week. Someone on these boards once mentioned the idea that ‘life in the US is easier; life in the UK is more interesting’ and although exceptions abound on both sides, I can feel the truth of this statement, and am thankful for now to be on the more interesting side of things.

 

Great post, Dent!  Sounds like quite a trip.  

And yet…there was also this other thing, a kind of nagging emptiness, a sense of the place being TOO big, the distances between things TOO great, the civilisation somehow synthetically imposed on the landscape rather than emerging organically from within it. We drove and we drove and we drove, and only made a tiny dent in the country as a whole. We passed billboards for Personal Injury Lawyers (‘Car accident? Call 888-8888’) We passed ads for glossy local morning news teams and cardiology departments, hard to distinguish from one another. We passed lots of ‘America vs. Obama 2012’ yard signs, displayed by people who don’t understand how elections work. We visited a Whole Foods, and although it was this mesmerising temple of wholesome consumerism, I started to get this sort of creeping panic, like the guy in the final scene of The Hurt Locker, just frozen in the cereal aisle. We passed field after field of drought-stricken corn crops, withering and brown in the sun. We passed through crumbling small towns, houses boarded up, cars up on blocks, even the WalMart gone out of business. We sat up one night and surfed every channel on the TV trying to find something worth watching. Commercial, commercial, infomercial, QVC, shouty right-wing news guy, shouty left-wing news guy, commercial, etc.

My hubby could have written something similar - lol!  Very much like his experiences of the US as a visitor - he's never lived there.  He finds all that stuff overwhelming - the vast open spaces & distances etc.  I remember driving a stretch of I-75 a number of times to/from/to/from Georgia to Florida, billboards varying between 'The UN Wants to Take Away Your Guns' & the 'Praise Jesus/Anti-Abortion/Insert Conservative blah blah blah' and then the neon signs promising 'Live Nude Girls 24/7 - Exit ## in Just 15 Miles'.  And he would be all - WTF? What kind of place have I gotten myself into?  (and snickering about how very odd we American creatures are to put signs such as that)

Or the time I drove 2 hours west across a small portion of Kansas (maybe 1/4 of the state's width) to take him to see one of the western frontier/Indian wars forts, then drove 2 hours back - along straight, flat roads where the landscape never varied & we saw hardly any other people or cars along the way (just lots of fields).  He thought he'd made it to the Twilight Zone or something.

Oh and YES to "the civilisation somehow synthetically imposed on the landscape rather than emerging organically from within it."  Definitely that!  The US & pretty much its entire history has been about moving in & giving the whole place an extreme makeover according to what we thought it ought to be... 

And I can't stand the TV yakkety yack there - especially the pharmaceutical commercials, they drive me insane!  

All of these - among many other more substantial reasons - why we'll probably never live in the US...although one never knows where life might take them.

Glad to hear you're in a better space now with here in the UK after your trip.

Not especially tanned (in fact, we pride ourselves on the pasty faced Northerner look), but we have lots of wholesome & outdoorsy people up north!

in our flat, unpacked a bit, and then my son wanted to walk down to the park to see if his school friends were there. Within a few minutes we had bumped into several people we knew, and I’d been waved at by a couple of other people passing in cars or on bikes. In general things felt sort of groovy, and I can’t explain exactly but there is this deep-rootedness, a sense of the place being well established, that emenates from the old buildings – a feeling that had been lacking in the States.

An amazingly descriptive and wonderful post!

But I just wanted to say that describes only certain parts of the US, there are towns, cities, neighborhoods that feel different--more like the above bit from your post.  I grew up and spent most my life in different neighborhoods of Philadelphia.  It's an old city, and very deep-rooted feeling and very friendly.  Not that I'd move back or anything, just pointing out that there are other options for places to live in the US that feel more like here, sort of (but not really of course, because you don't ever get away from the consumerism, the billboards, etc.)

Good point, Andee, and I have certanily experienced the neighbourhood-y side of US life too, and it's true that there is a fair bit of history on the East Coast. I guess that for my first few years back in the UK I had begun to construct an image of the place as being quite isolating/unfriendly and it's nice to be reminded that this is not necessarily the case.

Glad you had a nice visit! I feel the same way, every summer when school finished I head to New York to spend the summer holidays at my parents house on Long Island, about 35 miles East of NYC. I love that my kids get to have som good old fashioned American Summer, but I feel the same way about coming back, the sense of community here is so much greater than what it is in the states where I grew up. I love the drive by hellos, the gabbing in the shops. I just think that people in my little neighborhood have much more of a sense of community than my American life did.

Interesting impressions, Dent.  Thanks for sharing them.   

DAD, you write beautifully!

Hey, thanks!

I've never been materialistic or money-hungry at all, but for some reason the affordability thing is really getting to me. Some friends in the US have recently bought a new house, and they sent me the link to its Realtor.com page -- it's this gorgeous 4-bedroom house with a massive yard in a really lovely area near fantastic schools and they paid just under $200,000 for it -- whenever I look at property in Brighton, I am facing the prospect of taking out a whacking great mortgage just so I can pay twice that much to live in a dingy 2-bedroom flat with no garden or parking. I know I could look further afield, but I really don't relish the prospct of having a long commute to work. It's that quality of life thing, combined with anxiety about the fact that my wife and I are in no way saving for retirement under these conditions. When I contemplate the fantasy life I'd like to have, it involves working a lot less and enjoying life a lot more, and I'm not sure how we could make that work here. (I know people do, and I'm sure we could find a nice place in Yorkshire, say...)
Aww! Sometimes I feel this way too!! That's when I have to remind myself why I moved! LOL! Seriously, though, miss the space!  

I know this thread is old, I just have to say I am amazed to see other people say the exact same thing I'm feeling and saying lately!  Not materialistic in any way (don't have   a tv, 7 year old mobile, don't eat out, etc) work our butts off, struggle to live (own a 2 bed flat and it's all we could ever afford) and are not able to save a penny toward retirement, just want a 'normal' sized house with s p a c e!!!!  And a yard for my kids to play in and to sit in the sun in the summer!  I'll stop now, it's just soo nice to see people who feel the same way!!

I know this thread is old, I just have to say I am amazed to see other people say the exact same thing I'm feeling and saying lately!  Not materialistic in any way (don't have   a tv, 7 year old mobile, don't eat out, etc) work our butts off, struggle to live (own a 2 bed flat and it's all we could ever afford) and are not able to save a penny toward retirement, just want a 'normal' sized house with s p a c e!!!!  And a yard for my kids to play in and to sit in the sun in the summer!  I'll stop now, it's just soo nice to see people who feel the same way!!--


I agree with you Ives!! and I live in CA, USA..

I agree with you Ives!! and I live in CA, USA..

Does it depend what state you're in then?  Is California an expensive state?  Or does it depend on the area of the state?  The place I'm looking to move to is in the country, and seems to be a cheaper area for housing since it's 30 min from the nearest city.  Seems more affordable to me than the UK, but you're making me worried!  I mean, we could buy a nice little (old) house with an acre for $100,000 or less.

Does it depend what state you're in then?  Is California an expensive state?  Or does it depend on the area of the state?  The place I'm looking to move to is in the country, and seems to be a cheaper area for housing since it's 30 min from the nearest city.  Seems more affordable to me than the UK, but you're making me worried!  I mean, we could buy a nice little (old) house with an acre for $100,000 or less.

Yes, California is a very expensive state, unless you move to the extreme north.  You won't find an acre for 100K. Maybe an undeveloped acre for 100K, but not with a liveable house.  There is virtually no transit outside of metro LA or the Bay Area (even Amtrak only has bus routes over the Grapevine).  Property taxes may be frozen but sales tax, income tax, gasoline, insurance.  It adds up. 

I haven't said anything about your "we're trapped in a council flat and that's all we could EVER afford" logic but honestly, it seems like that's just your rationale for wanting to return to the US.  You're not a victim of circumstance and you're not a hostage of where you live.  You choose to live where you are.  You choose to have jobs that barely provide enough.  You choose to be upset about it all.  Choose something different. 

I don't mean to sound rude or snippy.  I just hate when people get it in their heads that they are trapped by their lives.  You're not.  You have the freedom to live anywhere in several countries.  We should all be that lucky.