Need help in deciding...my company is offering to relocate me to London

Great breakdown ksand24! Thanks! Where did you get these stats from btw?

Great breakdown ksand24! Thanks! Where did you get these stats from btw?

From here: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Japan&country2=United+Kingdom&city1=Tokyo&city2=London

Cheers mate!

I would definitely try and negotiate with your company a little bit more.  Based on personal experience living in London with two salaries, that when combined were more than what you are being offered, saving will definitely be hard.  

We lived in North London in zone 3/4 and our rent/mortgage for a 2-3 bedroom places in nice neighborhoods (not as nice as St John's wood) were about $1100 per month.  I think you can probably save on your monthly rent if you look outside of St John's Wood.  But I agree that at the end of each month, even if you cut back on housing expenses, you aren't going to have much if any for savings.  

And whilst your wife may make more meals at home, if you are used to eating out a lot, that will be a hard transition to go to not eating out at all. Plus, you will want to experience that aspect of living in London.  And it does get expensive.  

Good luck negotiating.  I don't really have a scientific number and I don't know how far you can push it, but if you work the numbers and you think you can get closer to £80-90K, you might find that extra bit puts you closer to what you have now.

Thanks Karin! Definitely agree! I'm trying to gather as much information as possible (local competitive salaries to my role, cost of living, my current salary, etc, etc.) and will make my case to see what they say. This opportunity is very important to me, so I'm very serious about going, and from what people say on this board, I should be able to get by just fine, but I will definitely have to sacrifice a few things in terms of quality of life. Which I am fine to do, but I'm sure my employer rather have me happy about the move and life while there than not.

Thanks again for all the help everyone!

From here: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Japan&country2=United+Kingdom&city1=Tokyo&city2=London

Great site. Be mucking about with this for a while...

Having recently relocated back to London from LA (and back again when my husband's job fell through at 6 months), I can definitely say I would not relocate again back to London for a job offer less than £65k. So you are on the right track!

I think your estimation of £3k per month is fair for zone 2 living, though I doubt you'll find the kind of pad you are after in St John's Wood for much under £2k. You could probably get a house for less further out (zone 4-6) and get the train into central London quicker than if you took the tube.

Good luck with your negotiations!

Thanks Dels! I am definitely starting to feel more and more confident with my conclusion. Cheers!

I think a good thing to consider is if this will help your career and family goals and long term aspirations. 

I left a really good paying job to a high quality of life living in Miami to the Scottish Highlands, not being able to afford to buy a house, a new car, or go out for meals all the time, making a lot less money.  But I would never trade this experience and this life for any of that again.  I've had nothing but fun since being here!!!   

As for 'being tied to an employer' I know how you feel on that one -and a few years ago, we were going through consultation for redundancy -  and I was a bit panicked I was going to have to leave my home and community and return to US.  It was a scary prospect that luckily, I was not impacted by. 

On the flip side, I have had potential employers try to lure me away (fully aware of needing to sponsor/visa requirements and willing to at least try to sponsor/obtain a visa)

So if you are indeed a high flying person, worth that much money a year, and have a tiny bit of UK experience, you may find a new job search a lot easier -because employers will want you!

I've got 3 months left to being 'tied to my sponsor' after 5 years and then I'll (hopefully, all things going according to plan and lots of fingers crossing) be on ILR.  But I don't have any plans to leave this company.  But it will be nice to have options and not restrictions.  Time has flown though ,quicker than I could have imagined.

I'm sure whatever you chose, it will be the right choice for you and your family!

Thanks Phatbeetle! Can you elaborate on the consultation for redundancy thing? What is that?

 

Thanks Phatbeetle! Can you elaborate on the consultation for redundancy thing? What is that?

Yeah - very strange from a US perspective.  The employer has to talk to you and  your ideas for options for redundancy
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Redundancy/DG_10029835

We were informed on a cold December afternoon right before Christmas that we were going to lose 45 heads (or something like that) and that our job was potentially in the pool of those who may go.   We had to find representatives to speak on our behalf with HR and it went back and forth and back and forth until we finally agreed on the temrs of the fairest way to let people go (which ended up being pretty much volunteers to go) -
You may not or may not get what you want, but it was lucky for me in this case, since I didn't volunteer. 

yes, very strange! Wow! Well glad things worked out for you!

I think you also need to factor in that you really can't compare the cultures and therefore the concept of 'lifestyle' has to be reevaluated. Throw a new baby into the mix and you're going to be making a lot of changes no matter where you live.

I won't argue that you shouldn't ask for more, but if that fails, you can definitely live comfortably on that salary.

Don't forget to factor in the proximity of Europe... That alone is worth a lot to me.

Hi,

Congratulations on the impending arrival of the sprog!

Thanks phatbeetle for the little recommendation there!

Some good points as per usual from the UKY establishment already !

My background is similarly from an IT background and specifically, within finance, tax and business infrastructure. Whilst £64K is a very good salary, as already indicated that you'd be in the top 5% in terms of salaries, I'd also put forward it's not a 'great' salary for living and working in London. You will of course be 'comfortable' within the overall view of things, and seeing as you are coming in from Tokyo/Japan which also has similarly high 'expenses' for day to day living etc you'll already be used to high costs and perhaps some 'compromises' in various elements within your life/lives.

A £64,000 salary breaks down to £43,901 take home after tax and national insurance (source - http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php)You'd be in the 'higher tax bracket' of 40% and National insurance I think will be around 11%, so in total, you'll be 'taxed' around 51% of your income. If you have pension contributions etc then take off the associated amount as well.

This comes to around £3658 per month take home. Assuming a modest 2 bedroom flat in st Johns wood at perhaps £575 per week is £2300 in rent. Utilities, gas/water/electricity £100/month (estimate) Council tax £150/month (estimate) food at £200 per month, travel work/pleasure - 300/month (esitmate), Mobile phones X2 £50/month, contents insurance £35/month (estimate) Clothes/personal items £50/month etc etc.

That's going to take up perhaps around £3100 or so, leaving you £500 leftover for the month or £125 each week. £125 can be spent in a snap on a couple nights out each week at a nice restaurant! and in my quick figures above, I've not included things like telephone line rental, TV Licence, Cable/Satellite TV subscription, I'll assume you won't have a car, savings etc, so the potential for you to spend all your income on basics and some luxuries is all too easy to do! and once the little one arrives... plenty to spend there!

I know you can perhaps save by going to a lesser priced apartment etc, but overall, you'll not have 'much' left over by the sounds of it.

Only you know your exact requirements as a couple and soon to be family, and where or what you spend your money on. In a nutshell, as mentioned in posts already, you'll be comfortable but not really to the extent of having a good surplus left over each month. Career wise, I'd see if you can speak to your employer about potentially returning back to Tokyo after a few years or perhaps onto another branch/country etc in which the company operates etc.

Good luck !

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

For starters, I don't normally post on these type of threads. This thread touches on some issues I'm familiar with.

Since most don't know my background, forgive me whilst I explain why I feel I might have some input, and why this isn't a comment from left field. My profession was extremely specialised within major global corporations (everyone on this site would recognise the names). As a result, when searching for employees with the skills required to work in the studio, some were relocating from foreign countries. Some were Americans or Brits (amongst others) and were to be employed in France or Germany. Some were Japanese to be employed in the US, UK, France, or Germany. All were professionals looking for international experience and opportunities, and many had families. I've spent a great deal of time in Japan, including Tokyo and the prefectures between Tokyo and Nagoya.

International experience was always a big plus on anyones' resume (CV). In my opinion, it's invaluable. But, there are two equally major considerations: the opportunity, and the family. As all on this site know, nothing new there.

First, the downside. Doing the mechanics of an offer often takes priority. Is the salary right? What's the cost of bread, milk, and living space? Does it advance my career? One can get overly involved with this, and forget about the family aspect. Is my spouse eager (really)? Or, does the spouse feel it's their duty to be supportive? (This comment comes from the experience of Japanese sent to work abroad, IF they could take their famailies. One Japanese company wouldn't allow it, but some employees moved the family on their own. I'm glad times have changed.) How will my spouse survive day to day living (especially with a 3 month old) whilst the breadwinner is away? What support networks are available for them (and family is far away). I've witnessed some sad situations where the spouse thought everything would be OK, wanted to be supportive of the move and opportunity, but found after 6 months the reality was unbearable. Sometimes, the lure of being valued by the company; being special; and the possibilities of even more opportunities outweight the thought given to the reality of the spouse living in a strange place, looking after the children, and often alone. What have you researched as far as a support network for your spouse in London? If you're talented, this won't be a once in a lifetime opportunity. In the future, there may be opportunities available at a better time.

The upside. You've been advised you can survive economically. It may not be fabulous, but it could be comfortable. You can always try for more. If the spouse is really looking forward to this as an adventure, feels confident about getting on with the baby, that's a big plus. It sounds as if you would be pleased with the job. So what's to lose?

Those big birds leave Heathrow every day. Some go back to Japan. Some go back to the US. Others will leave in the future for somewhere that may be even more exciting!

We can offer advice, comparisons, and encouragement. But only you will make the decision. It can change your life, but baring tragedy, it's never a case of HAVING to live with the consequences. Nothing new there as well.