Is the UK worth the change in life style and uprooting from America?

I so really wouldnt want to leave. We almost moved to London temporarily and I was in tears. Im so glad my partner changed his mind and decided to stay!!

We live in London and DH hates it so much. He'd move back to Sheffield tomorrow if we could (both of our jobs are here). I wouldn't be opposed to moving there, we both like the more quiet lifestyle that Sheffield offers whilst still having great things to do! We could take up walking in the peaks every weekend!

So Manchester and Leeds is not a particular majority Tory or Labor reliable voting block? Interesting that its a moderate area. That certainly is different from much of America.I think its safe to say that certain states in America are known to be either blue or red states.

You don't really get that same distinction between different parties in the UK... probably because actually there isn't all that much difference between them anymore .

I couldn't really tell you any particular area of the UK which is specifically Tory or Labour... there are counties where one party tends to win over the other in each election (i.e. the Lib Dems have been winning in my home county for 15 years now), but it doesn't seem to really mean all that much. Like with religion, people in the UK don't really talk about their political views that much in everyday conversation... it's a bit of an awkward subject. I don't know which parties any of my friends or colleagues vote for and I won't be asking them... that's their business, not mine.

All three main parties are actually considered right-wing now: Labour used to be left wing but are now right-wing (they are just to the left of Tories) and Lib Dem also used to be more left. In general, Labour tries to appeal to the more working class and Conservatives try to represent the middle and upper classes. See this diagram for an idea of where each party lies (there is also a diagram at the bottom showing how the parties have shifted over the years): http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010

Here, you can also see a geographical representation of how each area voted in the 1997 General election (Labour won): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uk_%27971.png
and in the 2010 general election: (hung parliament, Tories and Lib Dems formed a coalition):
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:2010UKElectionMap.svg&page=1
(Labour = Red, Tories = Blue, Lib Dem = Yellow)

There is quite a lot of variation within different cities and counties, so it's more like certain parts of an area have a lot of Tories vs. Labour supporters, rather than a whole county or city being known as being one or the other.

Even within individual families, there can be political party variations. My parents vote conservative (not because they are particularly conservative themselves, but because they don't want Labour in power ), while in the last election I voted Lib Dem. I have no idea what parties my brothers support, or if they even voted in the last election.

So Manchester and Leeds is not a particular majority Tory or Labor reliable voting block? Interesting that its a moderate area. That certainly is different from much of America.I think its safe to say that certain states in America are known to be either blue or red states.

Sure, but there is major variations when it comes to counties and cities. California may be blue, but San Diego county is quite red.

Same thing happens in the UK. Norwich, for example, tends to labour and lib dem, but certain areas are very consevative and some are green.

It's better not to make generalizations either way. There is more varation at the local level  in both countries, broad brush strokes often miss that.

Ha, I was about to chime in with the same San Diego example.  Manchester, at least, is full of all sorts of people, and tbh I don't find that anyone really cares about party affiliation all that much? Also, the votes swing wildly depending on the street even, because (Manchester especially) there are LOADS of students in some areas who can really impact voting patterns.  I'm pretty sure we vary ward by ward here.
I love living here, a lot, and I think it's important that people visit to check it out to see whether you feel comfortable.

On the plugs and sockets in the bathroom issue.

I don't think anybody would deny mixing electricity and water is dangerous.

However putting aside the specific codes and building regulations in each country, there is a common sense reason why they are banned over here. (17th Edition 3 metre separation excepted) 

If you are sitting slightly damp in your steamy bathroom in the UK you have made yourself an excellent conductor of electrical current.  Proceeding to dry your hair with a dryer that may be faulty or perhaps being supplied by a  faulty circuit without a 30ma RCD, you get a 220-240V shock, there is a near certainty that a few days later they will be nailing the lid on your coffin and loading you into a hearse.

If you are sitting slightly damp  in your steamy bathroom in the USA you have made yourself an excellent conductor of electrical current. Proceeding to dry your hair with a dryer that may be faulty or perhaps being supplied by a faulty circuit without a 30ma RCD and you get a 110-120V shock , there is a strong likliehood that you will survive the shock.

240V is inherently more deadly than the 110-120V used in the USA, and that is why if you work as a contractor on any sort of construction site in the UK and across Europe, any electrical appliances and tools used by the workers have to be 110v rated and run by a step down transformer to reduce the likliehood of a fatal shock if equipment or cabling is damaged.

Bathroom electrocutions are few and far between in the UK, but several people are killed every year, and ironically those killed are in the majority trade professionals.

FWIW, there are as many good things about the UK as there are in the US and there is plenty of give-and-take. Our rent is more expensive, but utilities are cheaper. We can't afford a car, but there is plenty of mass transport. NHS can be crap in some areas, but private healthcare is cheap. You can't dry your hair in the bathroom, but the humidity makes it pointless to do at all.

I'm torn because I want this woman but I want her in America. I was able to convince her to stay in America longer than she wanted but now the shoe in on the other foot and she is now in the UK waiting on me. There really is a lot to consider from my vantage point.

No one can tell you if it will be worth it. It is such a highly individualized answer and for a lot of people it is a different on any given day.

I never really wanted to live in the UK, even after spending lots of time here. When I chose to be with my husband in the UK I gave up a career, house, independence and emotional support system to be with him. I did it because I wanted to be with him, no matter where that was.

Like I said, it is a very personal thing, but I would not have moved for someone I wanted on a conditional basis. I didn't jump into it blindly. I made a conscious choice to put my relationship before anything else. The adjustment wasn't easy on me in the beginning and I could not imagine doing it for someone I wasn't 100% sure of.

Also, I would not be married if my DH wasn't wanting to/planning on living in the US for at least long enough to get citizenship. For me, I wanted the knowledge that my marriage would last if I could not make it in the UK. It also would have been a hard pill to swallow that my partner would not be willing to make the sacrifices I made for him (which might be what your lady is feeling right now?).



PS- I say this as the loving daughter of life-long Libertarians: Is there anywhere Libertarians can adjust to the government? 

On the plugs and sockets in the bathroom issue.

I don't think anybody would deny mixing electricity and water is dangerous.

However putting aside the specific codes and building regulations in each country, there is a common sense reason why they are banned over here. (17th Edition 3 metre separation excepted)  

240V is inherently more deadly than the 110-120V used in the USA, and that is why if you work as a contractor on any sort of construction site in the UK and across Europe, any electrical appliances and tools used by the workers have to be 110v rated and run by a step down transformer to reduce the likliehood of a fatal shock if equipment or cabling is damaged.

They react in about 20 milliseconds.  You can test them and you are supposed to do so every month when you do your smoke detector. They do have them in the UK, but for some reason they aren't mandatory but I think this is changing. They have been around for over 20 years in the US.  

We still have plugs in the kitchen where I often have wet hands and things are quite steamy.  The kitchen is small and if I am making soup or boiling something the walls are usually dripping. 

What I don't understand is why you can't test the ones here the same way you can on the ones in the US?  It is just a button on the plate.  You plug something in, turn it on, hit test, it stops, hit reset, it goes.  Done.

Interesting about the equipment used though!

If you have a tattoo of Lady Thatcher on your arm I would suggest long sleeves anywhere north or west of Leicester.

I haven't run into any anti-Americanism.  Everyone who has spoken to me about my being American has been positive about it.  Occasionally they'll make jokes about Americans being fat or starting wars or liking baseball or whatever, but they're always joking, and I just joke back about stereotypical UK things.

If you're sensitive to criticism about America, even joking criticism, you may have trouble.

When I visited my fiancee I got the same type of jokes. Everybody except one person was CLEARLY joking and the one person that was being a jerk wasn't even a friend. They made jokes about my culture and I made jokes about theirs and how they pronounced things wrong :p

I think we are told that Brits dislike Americans way too much and go in with the assumption we are hated FAR MORE than we truly are. I just went a month ago for the first time and was paranoid they were going to dislike me for the mere fact I was American when it turned out I hate an amazing time and met awesome people!

Maybe it depends on where you are planning on living though? Reading is quite lovely.

You don't really get that same distinction between different parties in the UK... probably because actually there isn't all that much difference between them anymore .

I couldn't really tell you any particular area of the UK which is specifically Tory or Labour... there are counties where one party tends to win over the other in each election (i.e. the Lib Dems have been winning in my home county for 15 years now), but it doesn't seem to really mean all that much. Like with religion, people in the UK don't really talk about their political views that much in everyday conversation... it's a bit of an awkward subject. I don't know which parties any of my friends or colleagues vote for and I won't be asking them... that's their business, not mine.

All three main parties are actually considered right-wing now: Labour used to be left wing but are now right-wing (they are just to the left of Tories) and Lib Dem also used to be more left. In general, Labour tries to appeal to the more working class and Conservatives try to represent the middle and upper classes. See this diagram for an idea of where each party lies (there is also a diagram at the bottom showing how the parties have shifted over the years): http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010

Here, you can also see a geographical representation of how each area voted in the 1997 General election (Labour won): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uk_%27971.png
and in the 2010 general election: (hung parliament, Tories and Lib Dems formed a coalition):
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:2010UKElectionMap.svg&page=1
(Labour = Red, Tories = Blue, Lib Dem = Yellow)

There is quite a lot of variation within different cities and counties, so it's more like certain parts of an area have a lot of Tories vs. Labour supporters, rather than a whole county or city being known as being one or the other.

Even within individual families, there can be political party variations. My parents vote conservative (not because they are particularly conservative themselves, but because they don't want Labour in power ), while in the last election I voted Lib Dem. I have no idea what parties my brothers support, or if they even voted in the last election.

Ksand very nice of you to provide a detailed outline of the political map in the UK. It was interesting and informative. I think maybe one of the nice things about my potential departure from the United States is not having to care so much about US politics. Elections in America matter a great deal because the occupant in the White House and other governing bodies has far reaching power. It would seem that a political party in the UK for the lack of a better word, generic. The Tories might be as pro health care as the Labor Party? If they all are so similar in policy I imagine it must not be as risky in supporting one political party versus any other mainstream party in the uk. That is very different from America.

FWIW, there are as many good things about the UK as there are in the US and there is plenty of give-and-take. Our rent is more expensive, but utilities are cheaper. We can't afford a car, but there is plenty of mass transport. NHS can be crap in some areas, but private healthcare is cheap. You can't dry your hair in the bathroom, but the humidity makes it pointless to do at all.

No one can tell you if it will be worth it. It is such a highly individualized answer and for a lot of people it is a different on any given day.

I never really wanted to live in the UK, even after spending lots of time here. When I chose to be with my husband in the UK I gave up a career, house, independence and emotional support system to be with him. I did it because I wanted to be with him, no matter where that was.

Like I said, it is a very personal thing, but I would not have moved for someone I wanted on a conditional basis. I didn't jump into it blindly. I made a conscious choice to put my relationship before anything else. The adjustment wasn't easy on me in the beginning and I could not imagine doing it for someone I wasn't 100% sure of.

Also, I would not be married if my DH wasn't wanting to/planning on living in the US for at least long enough to get citizenship. For me, I wanted the knowledge that my marriage would last if I could not make it in the UK. It also would have been a hard pill to swallow that my partner would not be willing to make the sacrifices I made for him (which might be what your lady is feeling right now?).



PS- I say this as the loving daughter of life-long Libertarians: Is there anywhere Libertarians can adjust to the government? 

Danielle, You made me smile.

Libertarians often can think of government as a necessary means to solve problems big and small and individualism nor choice need not be sacrificed. Libertarianism is more about freedom of choice and less about the hatred of government in it's pure form. Of course there will always be someone that will take a position that is to the extreme of everyone else. And it's usually that small extreme group of people that will be pointed to as the best representation of a group. Understandable how that can happen but doesn't mean its accurate.

I really do care about my OH and I agree with you how important it is to understand the strength of the connection you have with a partner. She is a very good woman. She misses her family and after several years of living in America she came to the conclusion that home for her is in the UK. I want the best for her and to be honest she is the kind of woman worth me traveling the world to be with. But I can't ignore the practicalities of life and behave like a love sick teenager. At 30 years of age I could drop everything and just see the world with her at my side and if things were to go south in the relationship or if living in the States turned out to be the better idea, my choices would not hurt me as much long term. But at 50 years of age I have to make the correct decision. I admire you for giving up so much to be with the person you want to spend your life with.And obviously it must have turned out exactly the way you hoped it would.

My concern is not about my woman but more about the transitioning to life in the UK and navigating my way in that environment. My job will not transfer there and I'm no where near the age for retirement. So a career change might be needed if I move to the UK. She on the other hand had a well paid position as a registered nurse. I make very good money and to be honest I don't want to give up my standard of living here unless I could come up with a great business plan for the UK. To do so would be equal to putting all my eggs in one basket.

Do you ever have second thoughts about giving up so much and does your partner realize how much you gave up?

Some really good discussions. I'm curious to know if the Manchester, Leeds area has a certain political demographic similar to how the northeast states has a different political persuasion compared to the southeast states? Is the Manchester ,Leeds area conservative or more moderate or liberal?

I think the best description of Leeds & Manchester from a political standpoint is 'socialist'.

The trade union movement was exceptionally strong in these areas, and that is their cultural heritage.  Manchester was hugely important in the development of socialism, trade unions and communism. Margaret Thatcher is hated in parts of the North (and parts of Wales / Scotland).  Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto in a Manchester library in 1848.

Wealthy outlying areas can be exceptions, but much of the old industrial heartland of the north of England is proudly 'blue collar' and still retains a healthy dislike of the wealthy land owning part of the conservative party, and capitalism, and tends towards being pro-NHS, pro-Welfare state and quite anti-Corporate.

Politics in England are generally a private affair though, asking who somebody voted for is quite personal question. We do not tend to mix religion and politics either. You will notice differences in the culture in different parts of Britain, but this is not really connected to politics.

I adore Manchester, and miss living there, it is a vibrant city with a rich history.

I think the best description of Leeds & Manchester from a political standpoint is 'socialist'.

The trade union movement was exceptionally strong in these areas, and that is their cultural heritage.  Manchester was hugely important in the development of socialism, trade unions and communism. Margaret Thatcher is hated in parts of the North (and parts of Wales / Scotland).  Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto in a Manchester library in 1848.

Wealthy outlying areas can be exceptions, but much of the old industrial heartland of the north of England is proudly 'blue collar' and still retains a healthy dislike of the wealthy land owning part of the conservative party, and capitalism, and tends towards being pro-NHS, pro-Welfare state and quite anti-Corporate.

Politics in England are generally a private affair though, asking who somebody voted for is quite personal question. We do not tend to mix religion and politics either. You will notice differences in the culture in different parts of Britain, but this is not really connected to politics.

I adore Manchester, and miss living there, it is a vibrant city with a rich history.

Now that certainly paints a picture. You know something, I've heard that the nouthern region of the UK is similar politically to the Northeast region of America.Would you say the northern uk is more unionized than the southern uk regions?

Not sure I 'uprooted' myself.  I always already blowing around in the wind, waiting for my next adventure.   

For me. Absolutely worth it. 

I think we are told that Brits dislike Americans way too much and go in with the assumption we are hated FAR MORE than we truly are.

I think you're right, and it's also the difference between disliking the idea of America vs disliking individual Americans.  I haven't met anyone who has disliked me immediately upon finding out I was American, but I've met a lot of people who have negative opinions about American foreign policy, the pervasiveness of American culture, and things like that.

During the Olympics, my wife and I went to see the USA women's basketball team, who dominated everyone they played.  Most of the crowd was British, having come to see team GB play prior to the US game, and as the US/Czech Republic game was winding down with the US team winning handily, people started to boo the US.

I said to my British wife, "What are they booing for?  There's that much love for the Czech Republic?"  She said, "It's the US.  Unless you're playing Germany or France, they're going to boo you."